Lanhdanan
120042
3329
79
Sliding scale fines
Sep 23, 2019 4:09 PM
Lanhdanan
120042
3329
79
McWheels
^^^^ THIS!
InfinityAero
This is rampant in real estate investment-- it's basically how Kushner made his money. Evict people illegally and just pay the small fine.
Jackrabbitry
He wasn't wrong.
mugentsu
thats a tow zone. Nan its just valet parking
Rotsteinblock
"it's illegal to drink on the street" *confused german screeching*
atomiccheesegod
Except they will fine you AND tow your car if you park illegal.
Doofer20
buy new car?
lawideas
Fines are inherently unequal punishment. A $400 speeding ticket is a nightmare to a college student, but nothing to a CEO.
NapkinBob
That's why it's a fine. "You can't do that", "here's some money", "fine".
skylined45
But ask these assholes to pay more in taxes so the fines can be diminished and suddenly they’re buying senators.
FunEndsHere
In Finland We have progressive fines, which mean that a sting for a poor guy is a kick in the balls for a rich guy, so it's illegal for both
Applepotamus
bushdidseveneleven862718
This is probably my favorite scene in the whole series. The whole speech is delivered so naturally.
heebiejeepie
Amateur. He needs to buy the police dept.
Deathwing777
Sounds like the Elder Scrolls
82ndAbnVet
On the other hand, wheel boots work wonders, especially on exotic cars...
NoNotHimTheOtherGuy
I'm not saying it's right but for everyone getting up in arms about this, if you drive, you do this every single day. You speed with
NoNotHimTheOtherGuy
the knowledge that if you get caught, you'll just pay the fine and keep doing it.
Doshegotabooty
Sorta. The idea is you won’t speed if you can’t afford the fine. You won’t park illegally either.
NoNotHimTheOtherGuy
True and basically my point. Everyone...but my mom I guess...speeds so everyone who drives is as guilty as the 'rich' guy parking illegally
Doshegotabooty
I guess but for the most part, it’s a near guarantee you’ll get a ticket while parking illegally. Speeding not so much
NoNotHimTheOtherGuy
Valid point. :)
HowComeDespiteTheFact
I always pay my "biking on the sidewalk" fee when roads are too dangerous.
SurfHill
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1992-07-06-mn-1072-story.html Ross Perot did this sort of thing to kill a reef and build a dock.
SurfHill
Contractor literally asked the Bermuda government how much the fine was, and paid it in advance.
Totallyscrewedinaustin
That article says contractor did it without permission and then since it was "already dying or dead" they retroactively issued permit
SurfHill
Article was the official story, lots of follow up showed how they asked, were told no, asked how much the fine would be,paid it & proceeded.
Feralkyn
Jesus christ, that is awful :(
SurfHill
Happens all the time. Washington Redskins owner Dan Snyder thought trees in a National Park were blocking his view of the Potomac,...
temporarilyhuman
Cities love this. They base budgets on fines. We could put cameras along highways or governors on cars, but letting people speed is a tax.
Keystonelight
Or maybe letting people speed is about freedom
CheekyBreeki
Ah yes the freedom to endanger everyone else on the road. It's right there in the US constitution!
hwbobb55
ha you standing in the road retard
CheekyBreeki
I'm a pure blooded American man, it's what we do. I just wanna grill goddamnit!
Doumdidoum
And they are turning cops into tax collectors, with the fines and the civic forfeiture. It's not gonna end well.
kohrah
[citation needed]
hwbobb55
Really it's one of the most egregious unconstitutional things they do and you can't find anything. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2
AlkeneThiol
Summarize for me what USAtoday's opinion of the #2 is.
hwbobb55
My summary is you're an asshole really all that matters innit
AFelineMassofEyes
I see what you did there.
MostlySunnyInMyWorld
I'd've paid $100 for a guaranteed spot one semester. Instead I used teacher parking & got fined a total of $70 that semester. I saved $30.
teddybonkerrs
It’s true. I used to work for a major bank in anti-money laundering. They just pay the fines and carry on.
TheosophicBlues
Corporations function this way. They make so much breaking the law and only have to pay a fine. The benefits far outweigh the punishment.
orivalx
Just saying the maximum punishment for breaking FCPA is a maximum fine of 100,000$ or a 5 years in jail. Which is really easy to get around.
orivalx
By shifting the blame on what happened. The fine hasnt been updated for inflation ever.
DaNylz
A fine is a tax for doing wrong while a tax is a fine for doing right.
Cryolith
See : Oil companies and safety regulations. Easier to pay fines than protect your workers.
DeadForTaxReasons
I work in oil and gas and holllyyy hell you are so wrong about safety.
Cryolith
In recent years that’s true. PSM has been around for decades, but only really taken seriously after a few major incidents.
Lanhdanan
Easier to say sorry than to ask for permission.
RadicalLeftist
I just read an article about a futurist who predicted the GFC and 9/11. His new prediction is governments will need to cap earnings of 1/2
RadicalLeftist
Their citizens to stop the shift of functional slavery within the workforce.
Blethigg
In the UK courts can fine a company a percentage of their turnover.
PiggyWobbles
they can in the US too, but we don't do stuff like that
haunter64
hence why companies instruct their supervisors to hide the workers PPE so they can fault them in case of an accident
Blethigg
Really? In the UK the employer wouldn't be absolved if the employee doesn't wear PPE. It's the employers responsibility to make them do so.
Blethigg
Or at least the employer would have to show evidence of issuing PPE, enforcing its use, disciplining those who fail to etc.
haunter64
My supervisors are told to take photos after they hide the PPE, or whatever is necessary to rule company duty out, we "take courses" about
haunter64
source , I work in an FPSO, 2 deaths since last year
ReadOnlyMemories
Same with car manufacturers, they weigh the difference between a mass recall and the lawsuits that could be bought from defective vehicles
ReadOnlyMemories
I meant "brought" but I guess bought actually works as well
nemo3590
Puts me in a fighting mood. Maybe we should make a club.
ReadOnlyMemories
Yeah OK I'm in, just don't talk about it.. I think it should be one of the rules.
Spartanaean
My father used to be a county level emergency manager. During a particularly dry spring he needed to institute a burn ban to prevent the -
Spartanaean
-state from catching fire. Farmers, who felt entitled to burn their crops, would call in to his office asking where they could "pay their -
Spartanaean
-fine so they could burn" their fields. Like, sorry we all don't want the state to become a big scorch mark on the map.
nommon
Even sliding scale fines aren't fair because a 20% affects a poor person in ways even a 99% hit might not affect a rich person.
kohrah
I'd guess 99% of the rich persons would disagree.
DocTanner
In theory, it's supposed to be based on reasonable ability to pay, not just pure income. For that exact reason.
Rez098
So because its not 100% fair, while still being more fair and equitable than the current system, we shouldn't have it?
nommon
I didn't say that.
PiggyWobbles
The utopia fallacy, its my fav. "we dont have to fix anything now if I can point out any flaw, no matter how small, in your solution"
TheosophicBlues
It's always disengenous too. The people who say it have no interest in the perfect version either.
PiggyWobbles
Of course not, that's the whole point
SirSage
You had a nice sentence going until I realized you were missing TWO apostrophes so now it's literal garbage and I hate you.
PiggyWobbles
My apologies m'lord
SirSage
Im glad you understood. Arent those people great? Make a typo in a reply and now they can disregard everything you said no matter how right.
georgedragonslayer
Some affluent people might think that way. Most rich people don't. You don't get rich by needlessly spending money.
TheosophicBlues
You spend money to make money. It's why they can afford to take risks that the poor cannot. And rags to riches, saving every penny, is rare.
georgedragonslayer
Spending money to make money, and spending money needless(ley?) are 2 different things. It's how you spend money that makes the difference.
melandevile2000
I dated a guy who would park in front of any business he would go into. Even restaurants. Fire zone- didn’t matter. Every time. Douchebag.
rikm
...poor tradecraft in this modern world of active shooters- you escape , then you are right there trying to get in and start the car...
DocTanner
Why did you date him?
SoIncrediblyBored
Money makes anything bareable, at least for a while (see Trump, Melania)
DocTanner
... touche.
Disgruntled3lf
Sliding scale fines
nodnarb17
So some crackhead is going to pay less for drinking and driving than I would for not using a turn signal? Awesome
bobswarley13
So a crackhead pissing in the street pays less than I would? Sliding scales don’t work,don’t penalize people who are more successful in life
CustomBuiltFamilyDad
My friend, if you choose to frame everything around how you're being wronged by the man, you can justify any cruelty imaginable.
iusedtodream
Write a book. You said that perfectly.
bluejolt
Well... DUI is often accompanied by more than just fines, such as license suspension, sometimes revocation.
LanceDevon
Some states turn signal fines are also accompanied by a deduction of a point on your license. Making it closer to suspension.
DocTanner
If you fail to use your directionals enough to get your license suspended because of it, you shouldn't be driving. ... Or you have a BMW.
CityYeti
That's a very regressive way to look at it
frogglesmash
If I get fined $100,000, my life is fucked, if Jeff Bezos gets fined the same amount, he won't even notice.
IGotTheMusicInMe425
How many crackheads do you know that own a functional car??
Rheios
You could run it by percentages. Then its 'yes, but actually no'
simplemusician
Everyone Disliked That
DocTanner
Fun fact: drinking and driving is a criminal offense which carries penalties far in excess of simple fines.
Whalegod
Depending on location, unfortunately. 50 over is criminal and roadside loss of license. D&D isn't. It should be the other way around
DocTanner
50 over is more than double the speed limit on anything but a highway. So, yeah, they both should be immediate suspension.
Whalegod
50km/h we have 110 zones. We also have 80 zone highways that really should be 100
hwbobb55
Fun fact speeding is not drunk driving you tard
DocTanner
Nobody said anything about speeding. The person I replied to compared drunk driving with failure to signal.
Disgruntled3lf
Yeah. It's the only way to make it work. I don't pay attention to speed limits because a speeding fine is not a big deal to me. Make it cost
Disgruntled3lf
3 grand and I'll slow the hell down.
orivalx
Meanwhile if you make 12k a year, a 300$ ticket is crippling
Disgruntled3lf
My point exactly.
GNiko
In Finland, we have progressive speeding fines. People have been fined over 200 000 euros for speeding. Even rich people feel that.
preparationh67
And any who doesn't should be flogged
BarretXIII
I guess you could call it FINEland?!
ExplainThisJoke
I mean, that's death for poor people, though. Community service for everything!
Suzuran42
I learned this from My Summer Car.
Iowyn
I think I need to learn a new language and migrate
hwbobb55
Why once you earn more you are charged more so unless you are oligarch rich what the fuck is the point of doing shit to advance your station
Iowyn
I'm not worried about advancing a station... More about hiding out in a place that generates interesting people.
Frenchbreadpizza
"Rich" people, truly rich people make 200,000 during a nap.
ScottaHemi
how fast were they going to get that???
squishybaker
day fines, are pretty awesome, as i know there was a finn who had like a million euro speeding ticket, but they can still ruin low earners.
ElioNope
Yeah, for someone living payday to payday, losing 1 day (~5% pay of a month) is a lot bigger than for someone who saves 10% a month.
paganfears
It’s because the value of the fine is based upon the individual’s income amount
Orgazzmatron3000
Wasn’t kimi raikonen fined a ludacris amound for something he did with a snowmobile?
tomobach
I find it interesting how Finland takes driving safely very seriously as well as producing so many world rally and F1 champions.
zombiejedediah
That's survivorship bias in action for you.
TimePressure
Same in Switzerland. A millionaire payed 299k SF for going 130 km/h in a town in his Ferrari. http://www.speedingeurope.com/switzerland/
TheVapingVegan
Wow. At that price, it's better to just hire a chauffeur and have him speed.
hwbobb55
Better to just shoot the cop
alejandromer
Vegonbrei
Here after 'x' tickets you lose your licence. Caught driving without one can have jail time.
SerenePrincess013
I got caught driving w/o a license, but am the wrong race & gender for immediate jail time. HEAVY fines for it, tho. 450$. 1/2
SerenePrincess013
Took 2 years to pay that shit off, & I still had to go to driving school to get the pts off my record.
wingineer
Which still falls heavier on poorer people—rich people can better afford getting chauffeured around.
Disgruntled3lf
I thought you just put Simo Hayha in charge of enforcement and things sorted themselves out.
betyouwontpussy
Ramsus Ristolainen (plays hockey for Buffalo Sabers) just got a speeding ticket there for about $135,000 USD
JackWise1
I think Karl Soderburg got a 6 digit speeding fine a few years ago. Does it actually stop or curb speeding?
Noksus
Actually the government considers speeding tickets as regular income, and actually wants to increase speeding tickets to get more money.
Noksus
There is a safety margin with speeding tickets, so whatever speed you drive, the police subtracts 3km/h from it. Eveything over the speed
Noksus
limit after that is considered when they decide whether you were speeding. Before you didn't get a fine until you were like 4km/h over
nemo3590
If nothing else it incentivises cops to go after expensive cars rather than us poor schlubs.
peachesforme
https://imgur.com/29Xg2fL
psychmaster
Same in switzerland. I know a kid who got 2.7million chf fine
YouJustGotRickRolled
Going from 1m to 800 000 EU a month hurts less than 100 to 80
AzgarOgly
It depends on what you obligations are.
arkuamore
But it's a fuckload better
Xyglrox
Imagine a normal person getting this fine though lol seems pretty fucked up
Memeeater
? What
Volleyballfish
The amount of the fine is based on your income. People who make less money get smaller fines.
Xyglrox
Oh then nevermind, makes sense. That’d be absurd
SurfHill
Some are rich enough to feel it, but still see it as the price for the E-Ticket ride. Worth it.
Eldis
Finland doesn't people quite that rich. If we did, they'd get a higher fine than 200k. That's what progressive means in the context.
SurfHill
There are folks that will be able to pay whatever fine is thrown at them. Might or might not be worth it to them.
Eldis
Yeah. That's why when you cross the traffic laws enough times you lose your license for a while, and repeat offenders lose it for life.
SurfHill
Those folks can afford to move should it be that important to them. It is a good deterrent, it is not foolproof. World has a lot of fools.
pomax
It appears you don't understand how a progressive fine works. It doesn't matter how rich you are: 10% of your annual income hurts.
Peterowski
And now magically your income is small and everything is paid for with the company card.
SurfHill
10% of 100 million still leaves 90mil. Or just don't take the income until the next year. Lots of tricks for the wealthy.
Ben92
But the idea that you should be punished more bc of your wealth is not something I can really get behind
Ben92
Also you are punishing the action not the person so if speeding is $100 worth of a fine it sh be that for everyone
Rhythmaster
Well, because of inequality the same fine WILL punish a poor person more than a rich person. So, that's what you'd prefer?
hwbobb55
How's it progress is it based on how fast or how much you have?
anderskvern
Based on you income/wealth
hwbobb55
Yes I looked it up. As someone who's always saved to pay cash to avoid debt. That's crazy. I lived like a bum and saved every dime to buy
hwbobb55
My shop. And then did to get my house. I can't imagine doing it for 7 or 8 years then having a ticket wipe a chunk out just because I have
hwbobb55
It. That's insane
Sage042000
I think they said "income". I doubt they mean your total assets.
lalwaysupvotecatsandTHT
I just don't know why this isn't the obvious norm everywhere.
AutumnalDreams
It should never be. Fuck paying thousands for a simple mistake.
Rasdwatrium
doesnt matter if you have millions, fuckward
QuamvisSintSubAqua
Because it would hurt the wealthy?
mt77932
A lot of US cities and towns plan on those fines for their budgets. They need people to act irresponsibly.
destinoz
Because the rich make the rules.
155DangerClose
YES THE RICH MAKE IT SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY A LOT FOR SPEEDING. YOU'RE SO CLEVER
destinoz
Snark in all caps. Bravo!
vilecomfort
It isn’t in the US because Republicans would be up in arms having to pay more just because their car goes faster than a poor persons does
exarkun00720
Don’t kid yourself all politicians are rich, Republicans or Democrats. If you fined Hilary crazy fee she suddenly would cry just as much.
vilecomfort
At that level, absolutely.. but I think there are a lot of great lower level politicians on both sides doing great things around the country
vilecomfort
Who aren’t trying to make a buck left and right
xgdk
I'm poor, not a republican, I drive fast, and I don't want this, so fuck off
eraevous
Out of curiosity, why are you opposed?
Eldis
"I speed regularly and I'm proud of it. So fuck off!" Hello, are you fucking retarded?
xgdk
My point is it has nothing to do with politics
freedommisunderstood
Shorter explanation: fuck the poor.
hwbobb55
Pretty sure it goes up according to speed not your bank account. Which would literally fuck the poor
AwesomeTeddybear
In some countries, the bigger your bank account is, the bigger your fine. 500 in the bank? 5 fine. 500k in the bank? 5k fine
hwbobb55
Never mind it's income based and fucking crazy expensive for anyone
littlegingerone
FINES SHOULD BE A % OF YOUR INCOME tell me I'm wrong
Freeflare
You're wrong. As is anyone else who thinks they've come up with a magic bullet.
Mumalot
I think Sweden has %based fines... tell me IF i'm wrong though :3
awwwshet
So unemployed people can get away with anything fineable because a % of 0 is zero?
SoIncrediblyBored
Presumably it'd be like a: "$35 or 20% of 1 day's income, whichever is higher", kind of situation
Somanyquestions
Add a minimum fee, like there is right now, easy.
AlexanderElcazorro
There should be a similar approach with Taxes. I mean, there kind of is, but we need to actually enforce it properly with rich people.
Doumdidoum
They switched that system on its head. The USA had the most comprehensive progressive tax system in the world in 1968.
pleaseconsiderthatImightbejoking
Ah yes. two pages of tax code... and 2000 pages of private bills exempting those who knew a congressman. So different.
EroticZombiePants
Yes, it should. It's a shame that it's the filthy rich that have the biggest say in our laws.
FatBastardVegetarian
You can still lose your license.
EroticZombiePants
They'll just use their chauffeurs for awhile.
awwwshet
So you punish people for having a higher income? That’s a terrible idea. If a fine will effect you financially. Don’t break the law.
Cheesynipnop
Punishments should be punishments. If the fine is too small of an amount to affect their livelyhood then we aren’t punishing them at all.
EroticZombiePants
So if the fine won't affect you, then break all the laws ...
awwwshet
Since you’re missing the point. It sends the message that if you have a lower income we go less harsh on you. That’s a dangerous precedent
awwwshet
And on the opposite side since you make a good living you pay more for doing better in life. You’re assuming all people think oh I’ll just