SweepTheLegsJohnny
156012
3419
62
So, black holes. Equal parts awesome, terrifying and confusing. How big are they, really?
There exist several commonly utilized methods for conveying their size astronomically, one of which is expressing their magnitude in terms of solar masses (M☉) . "Solar mass" is simply the mass of Sol, our sun.
Another is measuring their radius, or in terms of black holes, their Schwarzschild radius. This is simply measuring from the center of said celestial object outward, insofar that it reaches the event horizon.
So if you've ever googled something along the lines of "gigantic black hole" then you've probably seen this image. NGC 1277, when discovered in 2012, was originally thought to be so large that it contradicted modern galaxy formation and evolutionary theories.
It is indeed gigantic - if you haven't been able to wrap your head around the picture, the tiny dot in the middle is Earth's orbit - that is, the path it takes around the sun which has a diameter of approximately 17 light-minutes. Light-minutes, in that it takes light about 17 minutes to cross this distance moving at 299,792,458 meters per second.
The blue circle is Neptune's orbit - It takes light 8.3 HOURS to cross from one side of the blue circle to the other. Try to keep in mind, Neptune is 2.795 BILLION miles away from our sun.
So, while it's difficult to put meaning to these numbers even with the picture, it's basically showing you that NGC 1277 is just stupid big. 5 billion solar masses big, big.
While NGC 1277 held the title for a bit, it didn't take long for us to find another one that was bigger. Pictured far left is NGC 1277, the same black hole pictured above in #2. Next to it is Holmberg 15A - doubling the size of it's predecessor as largest known black hole.
Another recent post cited Holmberg 15A as being the largest known in the universe, but we're just getting started. It is huge, but we found another one bigger yet.
This is where shit starts getting crazy - OJ 287 is believed to be a set of binary supermassive black holes, or two supermassive black holes in close orbit with a combined mass of 18 billion solar masses.
The GIF above illustrates how these two giants will eventually merge to become a single supermassive black hole in about 10,000 years. Apparently, the smaller supermassive black hole of the two, consisting of "only" 100 million solar masses, punches through the accretion disk of the larger one about once every 12 years. If you're not sure what an accretion disk is, check out the stylized representation in picture #1
THEN imagine a supermassive black hole 100 million times the mass of the sun just tearing through it. How badass would that be to see.
(Video credit to LIGO Lab Caltech : MIT, https://youtu.be/I_88S8DWbcU)
So then comes along S5 0014+81, and this is about the point where astronomers just start throwing around terms like "ultra-massive black hole", because what else can you really do? Whereas OJ 287 above is estimated to have a mass of 18 billion solar masses, S5 0014+81 is thought to clock in around 40 Billion solar masses, more than twice that of the aforementioned.
Not only is this thing just staggeringly massive, is also happens to be a "distant, compact, hyperluminous, broad-absorption line quasar (quasi-stellar object) " or otherwise known as a blazar. I honestly don't even know what they're talking about at this point, but they sound serious.
Blazars are said to be some of the most energetic and violent phenomena in the universe, ejecting jets of plasma at up to 99% the speed of light tens of thousands of light years into space. They are also some of the most luminous objects within the universe, initially thought perhaps to be galaxies themselves. Wild.
(Video credit to Space.com, https://youtu.be/sk7HTRlb4XY)
So, where does it end? That's actually a really awesome question, and I think by now we should know that we really just don't know. Now what we DO know is that as of this month an even larger black hole was found, making that last blazar look pretty weak.
Enter TON 618: a very distant and extremely luminous quasar—technically, a hyperluminous, broad-absorption line, radio-loud quasar. Similar to all those words I don't really understand above, plus, it's rare in that it has extremely strong radio emissions. So how big is this thing? Current estimates are placing it at 66 billion solar masses (!?!), completely redefining "supermassive". The surrounding galaxy is not visible from Earth, because the quasar itself outshines it. With an absolute magnitude of −30.7, it shines with a luminosity of 4×10^40 watts, or as brilliantly as 140 trillion Suns.
And so that should just about bring us up to speed. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. There's a bunch of really cool space stuff happening right now and it's amazing to see people again excited to push the boundaries of human knowledge and understanding. If you were not already aware, the James Webb Space Telescope (https://www.jwst.nasa.gov/) is set to replace the Hubble telescope next year, and give us an absolutely unparalleled view into the cosmos. Truly exciting times indeed.
----
References
https://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2017/06/08/the-physics-of-black-holes-explained-for-non-scientists
http://hubblesite.org/reference_desk/faq/answer.php.id=62&cat=exotic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_massive_black_holeshttps://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=TON%20618
http://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=TON%20618
https://www.noao.edu/education/peppercorn/pcmain.html
-----
Edit: Thanks for checking this out! I will do a follow up post with some cool stuff.
As of writing, there have been 17 "your Mom" jokes and 6 Muse references made. Although I think saying this will likely have the opposite of the desired effect, it had to be said. Stay inspired, Imgur.
CyriousLordofDerp
Om nom nom.
namiasdf
I thought that image meant it was four light days away, and we were fucked.
PUNKem733
THese are always the best kind of posts. Space...mind boggling.
PHAL
Just be careful when you Google "gigantic black hole" you might not end up where you intended!
WhatTheFunkBro
are blazars fueled by pure racism?
agazillionbazillions
Ultra pure.
Wanderingmaniac
Those chunks of matter between those two black holes joining.... Can't imagine how it'll be ripped apart.....
ThuglasonRails
Someone needs to animate the "small" black hole smashing through the accretion disk. Talk about impactful!
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I know!
iatha
@gbmaker yo dawg, i heard you like space stuff
GBMaker
Me, and about 70 other folks. Thanks for the tag! @Tagaroo tag spc e
RegularSauce
My last time dilation joke flopped.
TheArkhamAsylumAccountsPayableClerk
MmmmmmDonuts
When I Googled "giant black hole" something entirely different came up.
TheFirstCurse
Came here for this +1
ILikeTheJiggles
UhhhhhNick
Like, whats the point of getting out of bed when theres something that big out there. Anything i do in this life in insignificant.
UhhhhhNick
im going back to bed
ShaggieBear
Nothing means anything. We're all going to die and you'll never be remembered. Your only sad because I lump of nerves in you skull comprehen
ShaggieBear
It's own existance. Just live for the now. If life doesn't have a meaning. Then it can mean anythi g you want it too.
DooksandPooks
Arock77
+1 for MUURRRPH
creaothceann
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=interstellar+parody :)
kojenk
I wonder what the black hole within the galactic core was before it collapsed. Is it just a large collective "mass" of multiple merged ones?
BenSpacey
Most likely caused by black holes merging but could be of stellar origin and grown by accretion or made directly by collapse of gas
churroschurroschurro
Quasars fascinate the fuck out of me. Really anything to do with space and the great unknown. This is so fucking cool! Thanks for sharing!
AnAliyAiden
I consider myself a religious/spiritual person but when I think about how incomprehensible these sizes are I can't help but doubt myself.
MacClay
I like to think the Universe is a physics sim God put together out of boredom and then Life happened when He wasn't really paying attention.
McKavian
To doubt yourself yet still believe is the fundement of faith. Never stop doubting, never stop searching.
Undroid19
Just play elite dangerous and visit some yourself.
TheDarkNerd
Sagittarius A, the SMBH at the center of the Milky Way, is "only" 4M solar masses, less than 1/1000 the 5B that is NGC1277
SweepTheLegsJohnny
Crazy stuff huh
Akitosh
o7
TresusIbor
"That's weird. I arrived, but where's the star-OH HELL NO! BACK! BACK!"
Delyruin
Same shit with all those goddamn spooky brown dwarfs.
TheBurritoConfederacy
*beep* WARNING: Frame shift drive operating beyond safety limits. *beep*
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I certainly do, o7
AKAweirdo
Fly Safe Cmd 07
SweepTheLegsJohnny
-CMDR _RUKUS_
TheBurritoConfederacy
o7 CMDR
shepard1707
Hour galaxy is 400 billion stars. Just six of those holes would fit the mass of our whole galaxy. Still not as big as your mom.
pieter42
Did somebody inform Muse about this? Might be time for a follow-up jam
PianoMan2112
It’s been stuck in my head this whole article (it playing in the TARDIS while Amy & Rory are playing darts).
Bystandr
"merge to become a single supermassive black hole in about 10,000 years" -There it is. That's the clock. We have 10K years to get galactic
Bystandr
travel and dimensional shifting down. Gotta get to the next universe before this one goes 'Big Bang' Given creation has happened, there has
Bystandr
to be physical points where the event starts whether its in terms of time or space (probably both so its likely tied to collisions like this
Bystandr
and time somehow).
Bystandr
Thanks for the post! Im very entertained :)
Totallyscrewedinaustin
There's a project going on right now to try and get an image of our galaxies own supermassive black hole. http://eventhorizontelescope.org
SweepTheLegsJohnny
“Virtual Earth-sized telescope”...these guy aren’t playing around. Thanks, I hadn’t heard about this
stronomer
Well, they're not imaging the black hole itself, but the image distortion as in #1. I'm torn since I'm not sure what they'll get out of it.
stronomer
Is another "proof" for BHs needed? But they got the data and are working on the analysis right now.
stronomer
(I was on one of the panels approving use of one of the telescopes the wanted to use...)
freeandydufresne
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
The funny thing is , that the size of those things is just the event horizon. The central masses are actually pretty small.
sleeek
Ok dudes im scared now
Gmayor61
Fun fact: black holes can move at pretty insane speeds. One could slam and destroy us, and we can't pre-detect them before it's too late 1/2
Gmayor61
Because of how difficult it is to detect them. 2/2
TeamRocketHR
This is not pre-bedtime reading.
Tver937
Eh. You'll be long dead before you get to one
AIRBORNEALLTHEWAY
Spaghettification ftw!
Tver937
The only time I'll be as thin as my mother wants me to be
vindik8or
You'd be long dead before you got to spaghetti range from massive radiation. Hell you'd be long dead just trying to get to the nearest one.
KanyeWesticularCancer
So what’s your take on the apparent violation of the law of conservation black holes seem to commit? I’m a hologram believer myself.
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I did quite a bit of research years ago and found work done by David Bohm through his work on the Manhattan Project. He worked under ->
SweepTheLegsJohnny
Oppenheimer and along Einstein and brought a philosophical perspective to quantum mechanics. I can’t pretend to understand everything they->
SweepTheLegsJohnny
Got into as it’s quite a deep rabbit hole, but he came up with the concept of a holographic universe in part because of his inability to ->
SweepTheLegsJohnny
Rationalize quantum entanglement. There’s just so much we just don’t know yet, but he’s definitely an interesting read.
PalpatinesSpiritAnimal
Any books or articles you'd recommend? Seems very interesting.
KanyeWesticularCancer
One thing I was thinking about was that wouldn’t any mass consumed by a black hole accumulate on the singularity making it larger and-
WhyDoesItSmellLikeThat
66 billion solar masses. My mind can't even comprehend how super massive that is.
[deleted]
[deleted]
SweepTheLegsJohnny
“Solar masses” refer to the mass of Sol, our sun.
Ulricmag
Gotta be at least 12.
PhilKenSebban
It's about half the weight of your mum.
skippi99r
its atleast 2 suns
ChilledOutEntertainer
1 solar mass is already beyond human comprehension, I think.
SweepTheLegsJohnny
About 1.3 million Earths could fit inside the sun, while the sun itself is about 333,000 Earth masses. In bananas? No idea
Kopar
About 6 billion solar masses larger than your mom *slaps hands with pre-teens* "oh yeah, sick burn!" "yeah! shut his cracker jacks down!"
GodCommentMaker
That’s thicc
NuNuDagobah
Talk to muse, they wrote a song about it
AngryAun
look at your mom
GodDamnedImmigrant
it’s five bananas lighter than Texas.
PhotoSyndlcate
really makes you regret just working every day until you die when there is so much existing out there
KarakLohr
It’s like, super massive.
yuraf
Gigantic.
manslut
Ultra-massive. Pay attention.
Gmayor61
I can't find the source, but I've read that "average" supermassive black holes are a length equivalent of over a thousand light years
SweepTheLegsJohnny
The Milky Way galaxy itself is only 100k Ly across, and while these are huge I believe the biggest is only about 15 light days in diameter
BlueKarat
It's pretty big.
Ryebread91
Take op's mom and half that.
ConveyEmotionsViaGifs
And even if you could, your head would totes explode
ScreechingMedic
For me it's the part about the blazar having a luminosity of a 140 trillion suns
norrec
That's why I wear my sunglasses at night.
reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Really? I wear them to keep track visions in my eyyyyyees
friggenjeebus
It is bigger than a breadbox
friggenjeebus
Probably like, 9 Brazilian bread boxes
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I don’t know what a Brazilian bread box is and I’m scared to Google it
SwitchPup
Well, you're not wrong...
coronus42
Technically correct?
SwitchPup
Best kind of correct.
marsupialsrus
My 8yo has SO many questions about the planets space and I can't find most answers using Google and he only gets curiouser and curiouser.
McKavian
I hope your kid never looses the curiosity. That's fantastic.
marsupialsrus
Me too! It's one of my favorite things about him!
DaneBrass
PBS Spacetime is a great Youtube channel for learning, the host dumbs-down everything very articulately for all level enthusiasts.
marsupialsrus
Awesome! Oh, I really appreciate the recommendation. I love PBS.
TheBurritoConfederacy
PBS "Nova" has done a lot of episodes on astronomy related things.
marsupialsrus
I haven't tried Nova with him recently. Good call!
septillion
I sometimes go to reddit.com/r/askscience when I have a question I can't answer. or https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/
marsupialsrus
I posted on explain like I'm 5 but no responses yet. I'll try askscience as well
barny109
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFipeZtQM5CKUjx6grh54g has some amazing vids dealing with all aspects of space plus loads on what the 1/2
barny109
future might be like for us. might be too advanced for an 8yo to follow but could be worth looking at. 2/2
AstroJamez24
History Channel's The Universe was a big inspiration for me to get my astro degree. Also, keep an eye out for local star parties or clubs
marsupialsrus
I like the idea of star clubs. My 16yo took astronomy last year and i know that teacher holds gatherings so I'll have to get in that loop!
ArtMadeofYourComment
That show is the SHIT!
SweepTheLegsJohnny
The recent series “Cosmos” with Neil deGrasse Tyson was excellent, they present it in a way enjoyable for kids and adults. Highly recommend
marsupialsrus
We watched the opening 10 min before school today and I'm going to get on reddit with some of his questions!
Falcken
Dot
CapnCox
Yasssss black science man
XAMANDER
Sagan's original Cosmos is much better.
CooCooCaChew
And much of the content is still relevant.
marsupialsrus
Thank you!!
SweepTheLegsJohnny
The opening credits are absolutely gorgeous, just to give you an idea ;) https://vimeo.com/102986993
TheWhiteJonJones
It's a happy day :)
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
If you have questions hit me up. :)
marsupialsrus
Like... hit you up if I need crack?
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
Crack and science :D
marsupialsrus
He's going to be so disappointed if i don't find answers. My 16yo is going to put me in touch with his astronomy teacher, too.
marsupialsrus
Will you check out my reddit post no one has responded to? https://www.reddit.com/user/AskingForMy8yo/comments/7zoy19/space_and_the_planets_
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
Sure man. I will respond here :)
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
6. The tilt of saturn is the same effect as the tilt of the earth (wich we know as seasons ). You can imagine it much like a gyroscope
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
And thats it. I hope these will make your little boy happy. If there are more questions just ask away. :)
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
5. Jupiter spins so fast because it still has most of the roational energy it had when the solarsystem was created.
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
10. The moon is mostly cold today, only the core is supposed to be liquid lava. thats again a leftover from the birth of the solar system
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
4. Mars is dusty because through the 4 billion years the Stone corroded, and through friction with the atmosphere and by the time (1)
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
8. The highest windspeed measured on Neptune goes up to about 1100 mph or 1770 km/h according to nasa
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
1. Mercury is the innermost planet. Being close to the sun means the gravitational pull between Sun and Mercury is very high.
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
2. Venus Air is poisonous because of the high concentration of sulfurdioxide, sulfuric acid . Just like near a vulcano.
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
9. There is no why to this story. there are many small objects in the solar system for example ceres .
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
7. In the early days of the solar system Uranus is supposed to have collided with another huge Planet , thats why it flipped over.
BillNyeTheCrackShopGuy
3. Fire as we know it is mostly created by oxidating things. wich means a chemical reaction with oxygen. And earth has lots of that.
Disclaimered
Fact: IF that SM blackhole has a planet with intelligent life, they will experience time at a very slow rate.
Johnkills
TheBurritoConfederacy
Underrated comment.
Volcanuz
Wouldn't they first need to some how live through that sort of radiation bombardment. Because that thing would HAVE to be sending /1
Volcanuz
out mad energy for it to be that visible at that range. /end
KamakaziSloth
Not for them though.
azraelsorrow
Theoretically* You cannot say fact for something that is only theoretical. We have not, and likely cannot, proof any effects black holes 1/2
azraelsorrow
have on anything. We can't even actually observe them. Hell, black holes themselves are only a theory among many to explain things. 2/2
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
Are you retarded? Do you have any idea how much intellect time and energy has been spent by geniuses during the 20th century to understand1/
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
..what we now know about cosmology and black holes? We have observes, for all intents and purposes, observed exactly what black hole 2/
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
Research has theorized way before we had any evidence. Not to mention the huge high-energy deadly gamma ray bursts we can incontrovertibly3/
TheBurritoConfederacy
Uh, no, we can already measure time dilation between satellites and Earth. It is trivially easy to show how much more it would increase 1/2
TheBurritoConfederacy
in the presence of a more massive source of gravity such as a black hole.
SweepTheLegsJohnny
It would be interesting to do the math and see if there could be a habitable zone around such an object. We’d need more info on the system
Mekanismen
Fucking hell I get exhausted just reading about doing the math for these things
WhatzitTooya
I'd say no good. Either freeze to death from the lack of warmth, or get killed by the massive radiation from the accretion disc. Or both.
bpetersen
If the laws of physics caused abiogenesis on Earth, I am guessing it can happen anywhere. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenesis
ExTechOp
The "habitable zone" would of course have to be beyond the black hole's ISCO https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innermost_stable_circular_orbit
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
Lol habitable zone? Next to a blasar emitting high energy deadly gamma radiation?
MechaNinja
I thought I read once that black holes spew gamma rays everywhere. Wouldn't that obviate life at any reasonable distance?
MajesticMane
I agree, definitely a concern. There'd just be too many highly energetic particles flying around. There is still definitely radiation (1/2)
masterofallhesurveys
Well, yes. At least, life as we know and understand at least.
MechaNinja
I thought "habitable zone" meant, like, habitable for us, so that's what I was responding to :)
MajesticMane
And other particles expanding radially from the BH, which generally is bad for life (2/2)
starkart
DiabolicalStench
What would be interesting is seeing what their night sky would look like, whether they have a "night" at all considering the blazar
oStaiko
Id imagine itd just be at a very large orbit, so itd be kinda safe from it
bamblebimble
Yah, speed and distance, using the universe simulator I have should show me the zones and speeds
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I was thinking the same thing, can you show the numbers for that?
SweepTheLegsJohnny
That’s a great point lol, almost certainly not. I don’t know much about it but read blazar’s jets kind of function like a lighthouse ->
SweepTheLegsJohnny
In that there’s an angle at which the jets “beam”, kind of like a light. But black holes theoretically can provide habitable systems
MajesticMane
I think there would definitely be a radiation problem orbiting a black hole of this size. Also,event horizons expand as matter falls inward?
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
People on this thread have no idea what they're talking about.
ThatRelevance
The problem here is that we assume other people sleep
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
Lol why wouldn't we? Every form of high level intelligence that we know requires it, bud.
marktheshark911
We don't know of any other high intelligent life off our planet
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
Exactly so why would you think life can form any other way when we only have one example of it?
ThatRelevance
Aliens*
Disclaimered
In the movie Interstellar, Gargantua was a SMBH of 100M solar masses. And 1 hour on the planet nearest the SMBH was equal to 7 earth years
Thedaleksarebadnews2
There was a similar Doctor Who episode in the last season.
EvilEkips
There is a Voyager one too, where they see the evolution of a race.
bpetersen
It's simple we go into the blackhole...well we just need space craft that can travel light speed...and about 200 million years of time
iMalinowski
But that's SciFi. Note: the ship in orbit would've experienced roughly the same time dilation as the surface as well.
ohmegatron
They made sure that everything in the movie was scientifically plausible with the data they had at the time.
BakaWakka
It's sci-fi, but did they do the math?
ohmegatron
Yes they did :)
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
It's crazy to think about, but I never know exactly how much the time would be dilated. I like to imagine one sec for them is 100 yrs here
SweepTheLegsJohnny
I tried to do this on Wolfram Alpha’s website and couldn’t get it to work :/
TheAlviss
To be fair we all experience time dilation. The faster you go the slower time goes. It's noticeable even at human achievable velocities.
TheBurritoConfederacy
*If you have a pair of atomic clocks to measure. :P
DukeDarkwood
NOTE: The effects are so incredibly tiny at "human velocities" that it would take centuries for it to even become noticeable. But, yes... it
DukeDarkwood
still technically counts. As long as v is not zero, relativistic effects exist. Even if they're far smaller than we can possibly measure.
Disclaimered
Yes atomic clocks tick slower closer to earth than higher up https://www.livescience.com/8672-higher-faster-age.html
TheAlviss
So, conceivably, a planet with a faster orbit would have time proceed relatively faster than on earth. A system orbiting the galaxy faster
TheAlviss
I messed up. "Time proceed relatively SLOWER than on earth".
BaaadGuyEviiilGuy
I know you did, no offense. And no, time dilation at varying human speeds is very negligible.
TheAlviss
Would be faster as well. It's neato.
TheAlviss
"Slower as well". Its late.