DiveBomber87
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https://gizmodo.com/belgian-gaming-commission-decides-battlefront-ii-style-1820663366
Link to the story. I hope this sends a message to all companys that if they pull this crap, people will not go for it.
IAmTheBaxton
Don't forget Belgium even won a privacy case against Facebook. Be afraid, be very afraid.
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
Counterstrike...
IIIHalezIII
TheIrishMike
KilljoyNE
This has been fought about by legal experts in other games (csgo) and generally: isnt gambling because you cant "lose" you always "win"
1337CaptainHadock
Best thing we can do is stop buying and playing this shit! Just fucking stop. They wont make any money off of it then....
TheGreyKnightsBANNED
Apparently Hawaii is going after this shit now. ITS IN THE USA!! ITS HAPPENING MOTHER FUCKERS WE WERE LOUD ENOUGH!!!
prysin
Ban lootcrates and say hello to 15$ DLC for pretty much EVERY single peice of the game short of a "main menu".
Ischeark
Belgium, fuck yeah!
Voric13
I bet it won't get banned in the US.
TheSuperJay
This all goes back to Clash Royale, which is *insanely* profitable for Supercell. Major publishers have been watching it very closely.
TheSuperJay
As a friend in the industry said, it's not surprising that 2017 is the year of the loot box, given that CR released 2 years ago.
TheSuperJay
Companies like EA and Ubi have been looking to mimic Clash's monetization model in AAA PC/console games to try and duplicate those profits.
Cremekuchen
People these days... Back on my first years of Gaming a game cost sth like what is equivalent today of 100-120€. Nowadays you pay40-60...
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
And you got no dev support or updates/expansions at those prices.
FirstEdition
Also those games didn't maintain servers and shit, so they had no continued costs after release so no reason to have continued revenue
CrissCross35
Now THIS I can get behind, the battlefront 2 lootboxes, that gives an advantage while playing, that should be banned, not all lootboxes.
Gronkar
paying money for a chance to get ingame currency to unlock something Should be illegal. If they want to keep it all ingame like OW fine.
silverbearsilver
I LIKE THE LOOT BOXES, I dont like that they make your own play better, but i like loot boxes and have no issue with EA
FirstEdition
I hate lootboxes, but I don't think they should be illegal. Thats whack
FractalPrism
FALSE. the article has a mistranslation.
58d8fee2
Now if only mass discontent online can also solve real problems #netneutrality
Daeyelle
Well this is the first 'lootbox' post on Imgur I've seen for two days amongst the literal 100's of netnuetrality ones
mandadadada
3. Only working to fullfil their own + their buddies interests. You need to press your governors, they work FOR YOU, fir the nation/citizens
mandadadada
2. But better than in America in relation to health care for example. This is a problem stemming from a bigger issue of authority figures
mandadadada
1.Well in EU we still see the government doing good for its people and not just neglect+trying to exploit everyone to the brink. Not perfect
LadyLamington
How appropriate that the add showing below this post was for "Cashman casino"
jodiethegeek
They just need lootboxes regulated. I love the lootbox system on Overwatch. It's something extra for leveling up.
Airsoft99
The game is for 16 and over so maybe parents should do a bit of research before buying the game. And everything in the loot box's can
ass3457
Agreed. Ea2weekboycott.org is getting big support. Well close lol
Airsoft99
Be unlock through playing the game. You don't have to pay any money for the loot box's if you don't want to.
Airsoft99
If there was stuff that you could only buy that gave you advantage then I would understand the hate but that's not how it is
CaesarPogChamp
I dont get it... Pay to win is nothing new?????? How come only now and only battlefield 2 is getting attacked?
EmporerDragon
It's the combo of the game being a AAA Western game instead of an Asian MMO and how much of the content was locked behind the paywall/grind.
CaesarPogChamp
Games like fifa packs, nhl and so on are much more like gambling, hearthstone packs is also gambling i dont like pay to win but its not new
TheSuperJay
The wide appeal of Star Wars means this is the first time many players have been confronted by microtransactions or even heard of them.
TheSuperJay
And EA hate is always popular, esp. when BF2's progression is very obviously designed to encourage in-game purchases.
Biers
Belgium has considered it gambling because there is no way to know what's in the lootboxes before you buy them. In order to actually ban 1/
Biers
it, the European Commission needs to make a ruling, which can take time. It's not specifically pay to win that's being questioned, but 2/
Biers
rather the randomness of boxes that you're paying real money for. Source, saw it on the news. Am Belgian. 3/3
CaesarPogChamp
Thanks for the information! And you have good beer in Belgium ;)
Biers
So they say! ;)
wildwiredweasel
Small victories. Take them where you can, and build on them.
FirstEdition
I'm with you. I hate microtransactions as much as the next guy, but lootboxes have been around for years. Why now?
TheSuperJay
The confluence of EA+Star Wars. Incredibly popular IP, incredibly unpopular publisher, and a design that blatantly favors in-game purchases.
ThatSquirrelInTheCorner
People have raging hate boners for EA
SmolTenk
P2W was bad in F2P games. But in a full priced competitive game? Thats an insult.
CaesarPogChamp
Agreed
NewtonScamander
Yeah this is not good news, this means that now the government can get involved in the gaming industry on a larger scale
ScourgeOf
There's already rating regulations, and this is about monetization practices. I don't think either case will become a free-for-all.
FirstEdition
Thank you. I, for one, don't want the government anywhere near deciding what does and does not go into my videogames
FearsomeMongoose
Lootboxes in general must be banned. as long as underaged kids are playing these games, no form of gambling whatsoever can be allowed.
FirstEdition
Since the lootboxes aren't essential to the playing of the game, an alternative is to have parental controls over whether they are enabled
FirstEdition
But that would allow some people to still buy lootboxes oh no government save us
FearsomeMongoose
Could indeed be a solution, as long as they are disabled by default.
FirstEdition
Usually you have to input some sort of payment, without which they are disabled
FearsomeMongoose
Apologies for coming back on my own answer, parental approval should not be the solution. Because you can’t allow kids in any way to gamble
FirstEdition
So have them check a box that says "I'm an adult." Thats how we keep kids from seeing porn, which is also a big no-no
Airsoft99
That is the parents fault that underage kids are playing it then it has a age rating of 16
Remmon1
Because gambling is 18+ and gambling restrictions are FAR stronger than media restrictions, which are merely about the sale of materials.
SmolTenk
League of legends has no age restriction.
Airsoft99
I don't play but isn't that only skins you buy so its not gambling
SmolTenk
You can buy skins directly, but they recently introduced a lootbox system where you can gamble to get high pricing items.
Airsoft99
Well I don't play it so I don't know about that
SpecialProjectY
There's no sure way whatsoever to keep a kid from playing or going to see a movie that's 16 or over 18 age requirement.
Airsoft99
So we should just not make games or films with those age requirements to protect kids
SpecialProjectY
Like cigarettes and alcohol, little shits will find a way, I know because was one of them. How about we teach responsibility?
Airsoft99
Yes. But people don't want to be responsible for themselves and want to blame the game for giving them the option to get loot box's
FearsomeMongoose
It doesn’t matter if there is no sure way. Doing something that prevents it (even if it’s a little bit) is better doing nothing
SpecialProjectY
Like digging a hole in the ground, dumping toxic waste in it, lay some dirt on it and let the future generation deal with it?
FearsomeMongoose
Well, i don’t think that this comparison applies here. Here we would tackle the problem and not lay some dirt over it.
FirstEdition
No. No. No. This is a dangerous way of thinking. e.g. Terrorism is bad, so doing anything that prevents it even a bit is good?
FirstEdition
Have fun getting strip searched at the airport and don't forget to say hi to the friendly NSA agent next time you're on the phone
nga002
Remember the good old days when you bought a game and that was it? No overpriced dlc or micro transactions. I miss those day
Obijesus
Member guys
Obijesus
Oh I member!
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
Yeah, when games were $100 and you got no dev support or updates. It was so much better.
Nuttsy
To be honest, you also couldn't really play a game for free, either. But we're talking Battlefront here, so that bit's slightly irreelvant.
cattoebeans
They still make those games. Stop buying the ones with microtransactions.
Refridgerate
Tbh this is all been a response to the growing cost of game development (though a poor and unethical one imo)
lysani
Costs of development are because of studios hiring more people than are actually needed, not because they're releasing a quality product.
MrScud
Why you were downvoted I have no idea, because its true. Games today cost way more to make than they used to.
imgurgladtobehere
If you don't want to gamble, don't go to the casino.
asanimgurianiliealot
Except you can't bring kids to casinos.
dauminator87
Kids also can't own credit cards or paypal.
asanimgurianiliealot
No but they can steal their parent's cards.
hajimedj
How would you like it if all places of leisure slowly became casinos?
FirstEdition
Its the online multiplayer games that have continued costs (servers and support) that are switching to MTX to maintain revenue over time.
imgurgladtobehere
Is all there is in your life video games?
FirstEdition
But that's not whats happening. Plenty of games w/o lootboxes. You're just playing the ones that have them
BIackJesus
What's the difference between Battlefront 2 lootboxes and all the other lootboxes on other games?
ThatSquirrelInTheCorner
There isn't. People wanna defend other games because they have cosmetic items. Doesn't matter. Still loot boxes. Still gambling.
QysteinWibe
Both gambling, but both are not PTW. And most gamers can accept gambling (part of the game/our nature), but not PTW.
irishPEDOelf
Dota has lootboxes where you get every item (except if the box contains ultra rare bonus drop) but if the box contains 5 sets and you buy 1
irishPEDOelf
5 boxes you will get all those sets. Once you open one the set you get is removed from the drop pool.
Talmorean
I want non-game play altering things to be in the crates. New skins, colors, armor patterns, but nothing that gives anyone an edge in MP.
Argm
Hot rod red Vader!
SirFormidio
I don't want the crates. At all. Give me the ability to buy exactly what I want, stop this random number fucking bullshit.
GraveShell
Yeah, this is used in many games and is a system I like. Purely cosmetics.
rpgmjay
Same for R6S, but you can get legacy skins no longer available in store. Take this away and it will be a lose-lose for Ubi and the players
TheNax
No, fuck loot boxes in every variety in full price games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLDid1UNyg8&t=2s well worth the 18min imo.
kerms
I don't want lootboxes period. Random drops suck. I want to be able to either work for something specific or buy it outright. No bullshit.
Zap117
TBH I think overwatch have done a fantastic job with how to implement loot boxes . And you get 5-6 boxes in a session
eggmuffin
You also don't want EA to use a version of Activisions player-matching algorithm to encourage sale of lottery tickets (loot boxes).
eggmuffin
That would be the one that does this:
?1
Grandshift
It was arguements like this that allowed this shit to spiral out of control to what we're facing now. It should have been killed on day one
Kkenn
Dota 2?
Radix865
Path of Exile lootbox stuff will eventually come available normally, it's always just the new stuff in them. And it's visuals only.
yzark01
i think thats partly what they were planning given all the different legion schemes found in the files, apparantly the skins arent ready tho
FearsomeMongoose
No, absolutely not. It’s a form of gambling which is highly addictive. Games for underaged kids shouldn’t have any form of gambling in them
rdykgo
Then please also ban sweets, because they are addictive to and targeted at children and you can buy then for money.
BenWyattCalzoneKingandIceTownClown
I was going to ask about M rated games but those are age limited at 17 and Im pretty sure gambling age is 18 nationwide right?
thatlamer
Why do you want crates at all? Why do you want to pay money for the CHANCE of obtaining something you want?
ScourgeOf
I don't see the issue in randomized prizes. Its the need to fork money over for them and being the only way to access certain content.
lainzis
They could learn from R6Siege. Lootpacks for gold or by chance, but also buy the skin straight up (gold). And elite uniforms for irl money.
RxNoob
For the rush of it probably, because it's gambling. They just don't want others to be able to beat them with better luck.
ThatSquirrelInTheCorner
This. I brought up this very same argument on another post, but it appears to have fallen on deaf ears.
CaptainHedgeHog
I think the feeling of uniqueness loot boxes can create with rare cosmetic items is appealing to so people.
Helikaon
Absolutely. Which is why Titanfall 2's system was awesome. You got exactly what you paid for. Not a CHANCE of getting what you wanted.
joshyjosh
To sate people's gambling addictions.
CanadaisAmericasHat
I really like what Overwatch and now Destiny 2 do with loot boxes, it’s all purely cosmetic and you get them through just playing.
SuperFaex
In Destiny 2 you get consumable color packs and each one has 3 uses. To color your whole armor you need 4 uses. That's pretty scummy.
Zyrin
From what i've been hearing from friends your be up to your ears with color packs by the time you finish the game
Muttons1337
It's true, without even trying, you get more shaders than you know what to do with.
djcoffi
What worries me is that this is designed to be addictive and children play these games. It should be impossible to buy with real money.
MagicAndDuctTape
So no more hearthstone in Belgium, eh?
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
Or Counterstrike, DotA, PUBG, H1Z1, or any other game where you buy packs/boxes/crates/etc
SmolTenk
Its more likely that the boxes will simply not be available in belgium.
MagicAndDuctTape
But... Hearthstone's only method of card purchase / delivery is randomised packs.
SmolTenk
theyll find a way. A lot of it is about psychology and presentation, which is why a pack of trading cards is seen differently iirc.
SmolTenk
A pack of physical trading cards you buy at a store I mean.
MagicAndDuctTape
Hearthstone is the digital card game developed by Blizzard
SmolTenk
I know. I was just pointing out that the act of receiving cards itself isnt neccessarily problematic.
NoIntent
Is this true? Cause Mass Effect 3 did this years ago... same policy. Or can u not buy the SWBF boxes with in game creds?
NocturnalGreed
You can, but it's a very very loud minority that is pinning this on loot boxes. I don't see a problem with lootboxes at all.
mandadadada
The bans are especially for children & people vulnerable to gambling or compulsiveness. Not well balanced, controlled, healthy adults
TrippyTurtle69
Username checks out
NoIntent
I do but I'm just saying it isn't a first.
SmolTenk
You dont see a problem with people being able to buy objectively better equipment in a competitive game?
NocturnalGreed
That's not what loot boxes are, at all.
SmolTenk
That is exactly what the SWBF2 Lootbox system allows you to do. And its why everybody is so upset about it.
NocturnalGreed
I didn't say anything about battlefront 2. I'm talking about loot boxes. Instead of downvoting me, read the thread first.
LHC20
The thing with ME3 Loot crates was that it's just PvE so no one cared that much. And you got credits fast enough...
DireWilk
Exactly. I never felt urged to buy them, once you reached platinum level you could buy box every game.
lysani
I miss ME3 MP. Getting multiple ultra-rares from a single box was always a nice treat. And the N7 Destroyer was a beast...
SelfSuppliedFilth
Na
SmolTenk
wasnt investigated before. If this goes through all loot box systems, including overwatch etc. will be illegal.
SizeGuesser
So with their system you were gambling for something you could otherwise buy, but games like overwatch only use in game currency 2
SizeGuesser
Even Overwatch? I thought this was considered gambling because EA put a monetary value on the items anyway 1
Dokramuh
They wouldn't be gambling if you couldn't buy them, but recieved them only as in-game rewards.
SizeGuesser
With no real world value to otherwise purchase those purely aesthetic pieces 3/3
SmolTenk
and they are way better optimized for it than, say, trading cards, so they pose a greater risk. Well see how it turns out.
TheSwedishMoose
In Overwatch you can buy additional loot boxes with real $ to get additional chances. Still much better than EA's strategy though.
SmolTenk
Its still up in the air, but it might happen. Problem is that with the way that the systems are set up the could lead to gambling addiction.
mandadadada
Yes, people saying "I don't mind this&that". Don't understand that there are kids & people vulnerable to gambling who buy games. Isn't fair
mithiwithi
I don't want lootboxes banned, I want them regulated. Specifically, with published probability tables.
lurch2014
nah, banning them is better
WatneyTheSpacePirate
Lootboxes themselves aren't the issue. It's having to pay real money for a *chance* to get something that does in fact affect gameplay.
eggmuffin
They are very much the issue. They are lottery tickets that you're manipulated into wanting.
SmolTenk
And age restricted.
Raabid
I just want full price games that aren't built on af2p economy. Loot boxes aren't the problem, it's that games are based on their temptation
DontTouchMyHoHos
I want them gone, loot boxes is a horrible system. It stems from greed
ShaTiK
And what good it will do to people with self-control issues? It's still gambling, they will still do it without even looking at these tables
SonOfVon
lootboxes belong in f2p games
AnIdiotWhoShouldBeShot
Like China does? That'd certainly help, but it's still a shitty gimmick.
myUsernameWasAlreadyTakenAndIHaveAcceptedMyFate
It took blizzard a week to circumvent that law
juoji
How ?
Blackrain39
Algorithm based probability. No specific numbers to publish.
Nifty255
How does that even work? How do you convert a hard number equation to a not-hard number equation without affection the end chances?
Nuttsy
Wouldn't that mean there's still an equation at work? They could be...requested to publish that, no?
Kaseladen
I’d just rather banning them tbh, its a shitty mechanic and tactic
mandadadada
Belgium and EU have regulations about banning, such as a +18 rating. They will NOT throw the game out the window the will likely change it
Vizreki
I don't favor government banning much anything, I prefer users boycotting. Too many blind consumers tho
mithiwithi
I don't favor gambling bans in general. If one DOES ban gambling though, lootboxes should be banned as such, or at least restricted to 18+.
Hurro
About as enforceable as porn is, I would think.
TheBlackWindHowls
I remember when all porn sites used to have a "Click this to prove you're 18" or "Enter your birthday" page to enter.
mithiwithi
Of course, if lootboxes ARE regulated as gambling, the videogame industry is in for some nasty shocks as to how deep that goes. 1/2
FirstEdition
If it does end up that way, lootboxes will go. Pay to win is here to stay, however, just without randomness
mithiwithi
For starters, gaming commissions are going to want to audit their lootbox code, and probably even mandate the PRNG it uses. 2/2
mithiwithi
They'll probably want to partner with existing video-slot developers who already are familiar with the regulatory colonoscopy involved. 3/3
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
Players are in for one too when instead of giving people a choice to buy dlc/boxes, they have to pay what they should be charging for games
SmolTenk
If thats how it needs to be. Still better than playing on addiction mechanisms to get people to pay more.
CheckOutMyFavoritesPart2
A return to where games are $100+ and we get no support after release.
morelikeconsham
I will pay $100 for a high quality, AAA title that is complete in its own right. Granted, the most wildly successful games out there did
morelikeconsham
Fine at $60-70 with no microtransactions (BOTW, Witcher III, skyrim, etc)
hajimedj
If Belgium bans it there's pretty much a 100% guarantee that the ban goes European as well. This is going to be very interesting.
DarkAngelDam
Dumbass! This is why people, this is why, f*cking ignorant Imgur
wildwiredweasel
This is why what, people write sentence fragments? I mean, it's why you did, I guess, though I wouldn't blame them for your bad grammar.
SmolTenk
wouldnt say 100% but I can see germany going along with it. So its at least likely.
ScourgeOf
Belgium is known to be very harsh and restrictive on gambling, moreso than most other EU countries.
wildwiredweasel
I am fucking excited.
Airsoft99
So people can't protect themselves from spending their own money they need the government to do it for them.
SmolTenk
Pretty much. Same as alcohol, really.
Airsoft99
Thank you. Yes it is
SmolTenk
I mean, it would mostly be their parents money as the concerns are about teenagers, but yeah.
ThatSquirrelInTheCorner
That is not true at all
CatsIsTheAnswer
How is that guaranteed?
IrgendSoEinTyp
Because he thinks Belgium IS the EU parliament and forgot that it is just located in Belgium
Durango
Belgium said they want to push that to EU level, not national level (where it would just punish Belgians with little effect on publishers)
Durango
BUT, it's easier said than done. Pushing a regulation like that to EU will take time and sweat and nothing guarantee it will pass.
HeadlessDonkey
Belgiums capital houses the EU.
CatsIsTheAnswer
That's like saying the UK government will align to whatever policy pursued by London's mayor
FirstEdition
UN is in America so everything America wants is automatically UN supported?
arphaSleepWrecker
As a European I m asking you not to try to compare our systems.
FirstEdition
Huh?? I'm comparing the EU to the UN. The UN is your system too. The comparison is apt - both coalitions of countries forming common rules.
CatsIsTheAnswer
As a European that seems a more than fair comparison, considering the US has a distinctive influence on the UN