purpledd
13555
360
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https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/23/middleeast/israel-tactics-hezbollah-analysis-intl/index.html (+ attacks in Gaza and Yemen)
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-lebanon-war-hezbollah-10-1-24-intl-hnk#cm1qp59zk00053b6qa29tm1om (No Israelis killed, 1 Palestinian reported killed)
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-lebanon-war-hezbollah-10-1-24-intl-hnk#cm1qqwpjw00003b6qd4fai6dx
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-lebanon-war-hezbollah-10-1-24-intl-hnk#cm1qw8kw300003b6qacc2shgz
America getting involved will absolutely lead to a wider war - and Blinken clearly has peanuts for brains.
And to be clear, I despise both the terrorists in Iran and the terrorists in Israel. Anyone cheering for this war clearly does not understand what it means to be a civilian in a war zone. There needs to be an immediate ceasefire across the entire Middle East NOW, end to the genocide, freeing of ALL hostages on both sides, and an arms embargo to pressure Israel (their idiotic "escalate to de-escalate" strategy is absolutely responsible for this moment).
Meanwhile in the last 24 hours: Israel has murdered 50+ people in Gaza and Lebanon:
https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-lebanon-war-hezbollah-10-1-24-intl-hnk#cm1qz4m6v001m3b6qmnn3xcve
https://aje.io/di4751?update=3215773
FudgeWeasel
Without double standards, they'd have no standards at all
Munchman347
Just keep sending cheap, non-explosive drones into aggressor Israel, 'The cost of a single Iron Dome interception is about $50,000, while the other systems can run more than $2 million per missile.' $$$
JohnSmithterms
How about .... israel ... gets the fuck out of palestine merica? Asking as Brit.
TremulousGirthquake
We already know that the US is going to do whatever Israel decides though, Northrop/AIPAC and the like will see to it regardless of the people not wanting to be back in another war
spacecasethebassface
we are fighting for peace. just like you fuck for your virginity.
seenunseen
Round and round we go.
Metlahaed
Fuck both sides, always felt that way. Religion is a monster
BobisBobIsHimIsMe
Here is what’s nuts.
Iran targeted an airfield and ONLY MILITARY TARGETS.
Mainly the airfield housing the F-16s used to attack southern Lebanon.
Israel has been TARGETING CIVILIANS.
And residential areas in Lebanon. ( and Gaza )
So before anyone denounces Iran remember…. ISREAL STARTED OUT TARGETING CIVILIANS.
And Iran has maintained a military only doctrine.
Iran can eat a meat missile.
But holy shit so can Netty and the IDF.
FaithAlone
It’s not really that risky when you know the USA will just bail you out if you bite more off than you can chew.
ToSisPoS
The ones cheering for this war are the bullet and bandage industries.
Syovere
> "escalate to deescalate"
"ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant"
omniikiid
It’s not like we did Nazi this coming
Dolenmorgul
As a European I do indeed condemn Iran's attack on Israel but on the same note condemn Israel's attack on Lebanon and for sure Israel's genocide in Gaza and the West-bank. Oh, and Israel's retalliation on Iran that is surely gonna happen. I also condemn the US for letting Israel get away with it all.
Whitebeardthepirate
so I'm guessing netenyahu isn't going to be satisfied until it's full blown war in the middle east
Apeofdeath
They could try negotiation, but Israel killed the Hamas Negotiator and his entire family
Seanspeed
Who should try negotiation? Iran? The one who is backing local extremist terrorist groups within and near Israel with the openly stated intention of killing all Jews? Cuz I dont know how Israel is supposed to negotiate with such genocidal extremists who are literally worse than the Nazis.
purpledd
What exactly do you think is happening in Gaza? Are you in denial about the mass slaughter of civilians, war crimes, and other terrorist attacks by Israel?
FlintNorth44
Does Iran have nukes?
Seanspeed
No they do not. Maybe in like 10+ years they might, though. Thanks to Trump pulling us out of the Iran nuclear deal.
DarkManiels
Not yet, but they’re close. Here’s a good summary of their capabilities:
https://www.iranwatch.org/our-publications/articles-reports/irans-nuclear-timetable-weapon-potential#f10
According to this, Iran is effectively at (that is, attainable within a week, upon the decision to complete) five weapons’ worth of nuclear grade material. However, there is a lengthier timeline (months) for integration into new or existing weapons, a process which is happening in parallel.
BobJones786
I think that Israel wants the same "Two State Solution" that America brokered with its indigenous people: "We, the white, Europeans get all the land, resources, profit and prosperity. You, the indigenous people, the ones still left alive, get to live in a hole in the desert and get nothing." Why would anyone want the U.S. involved in these negotiations? Look at our track record.
quietwalker
The previous 2 state solution where they divided up the land into Israel for the Jews and Jordan for the Arabs seems to have worked so well that I wonder why they need another one?
OlofBorrbrottsson
What Israel wants doesn’t matter, they’ll have to accept the realistic version of the largely agreed upon and largely UN-backed plan that exists.
gh013
Game of Thrones
Maverickaura
The fucking irony that IRAN of all nations can precisely hit military targets with almost no civilian casualties IN A CITY WITH UNGUIDED ROCKETS and yet the supposed actual superpowers like Isreal and Russia can't take out one dude without leveling an apartment building and three aid trucks.
OlofBorrbrottsson
How many military targets did Iran hit?
Maverickaura
I imagine we'll know the full extent of it just as well as Russian citizens know how many tanks putin has lost so far. But the fact these rockets were very clearly striking things intact, in a city, and there was only one civilian death does imply that they WERE targeted strikes at somthing. Likely the iron dome sites since it seemed like more and more made it through as footage rolled on.
OlofBorrbrottsson
It’s all speculation at this point, but it would seem Iran tried to hit Mossad but missed by the kind of margin you could expect from unguided missiles. Of the airbases Iran claims to have hit, only one seems to have been semi-confirmed. We’ll know more in time, until then it’ll be difficult to untangle how damage and lack of civilian casualties relate to defence efficacy, timing of strikes, Iranian technical and targetting prowess, and so on.
Maverickaura
Frankly I understand why Isreal isso pissed about it. It completely embarrasses them. That shit would be like finding out north Korea is better at fighting than us.
Maverickaura
It completely upends isreals entire defense of "well our enemies are using civilians as shields by building in population centers it can't be helped but to have casualties " when a nation using outdated tech can do it.
badgesweedontneednostinkingbadges
Israel says there must be consequences for Iran's attack. Iran says the attack was the consequence for killing the leader of Hezbolah in Lebanon. Which was the consequence of Hezbolah firing rockets into Israel. This is how it continues. Everybody is looking for vengence. Everybody is looking BACK at what has been done to them. To move forward, they need to bury the past. "An eye for an eye" just leaves everybody blind.
purpledd
There's a clear change that happened when Trump moved the embassy, defunded UNRWA, and pursued the Abraham accords while freezing out Palestine. This encouraged Settlers to launch terrorist attacks, steal land, etc. These Israelis were not driven by vengeance, but a desire for Greater Israel. A year of weekly peaceful protests by Gazans was met with weekly IDF bullets. Biden fixed some but not all of Trump's damage. The impending normalization with Saudi Arabia drove Hamas to its terror attack.
Evenstevensteve
To be fair. There´s been periods of relative calm and nothing happened. Israel kept building illegal settlement on Palestinian land and doing everything to destabilize Palestinian society. Israel needs this low intensity conflict because it allows them to to get closer to their ultimate goal which is the whole area that was originally Palestine. They try to control the violence but sometimes it spirals out of control. They´ve been to blame for most of this since the start and they can´t stop.
InevitableBadger
Iran needs the low intensity conflict because it keeps up pressure on the US. Hamas and Hezbollah need it because it's the whole purpose of their existence and they cease to exist without it. There's a bunch of poor sods out there who really need it to stop, but nobody with power cares what they think and for most of those in power, their power is built and maintained by this conflict.
Evenstevensteve
The Ayatollas want to stay in power but they don´t need actual conflict. Hezbollah was created in response to Israels invasion in 1982. Hamas was for a long time supported by Israel as it was seen as a way to fragment the Palestinians. However you turn it..you almost always en up with it starting with Israel/US. The creation of that state was a mistake and the world has been paying for it ever since.. the Palestinians are paying the biggest price their only sin was living in the wrong place
bloxxing
funny how no-one mentioned what the jews have been doing for the last 70-80 years. i find that unacceptable.
purpledd
Not all Jews are Israeli and not all Israelis are Jews. There's plenty of anti-zionist and pro-peace Jews and plenty of non-Jewish warmongering zionists (including Druze, Arabs, etc). You can read about Einstein's letter criticizing Israel in the NYT. Plenty of Jewish leaders/heroes have been anti-Israel. JVP and IfNotNow are some resources you should look into. Blaming all Jews for Israel's horrors is absolutely anti-Semitic.
vodkaho
Of course the US is going to help. We put the pieces in place that allowed the pieces to be in place for this situation to occur. And we've deliberately encouraged all parties to allow it to deteriorate to the state it is in. Now we get to help destroy Iran, and then the other state that chooses decide against Israel, while selling weapons to the IDF. A real win-win situation. Motherfuckers! Build houses, not missiles! Fund food programs, not right wing ideologues with war in their heart.
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
Takes longer to destabilize the middle-east than it does to destabilize south america, apaprently, but the CIA sure is trying!
Thankfully the CIA has a helpful ally in the form of a genocidal fascist regime known as Israel!
Seanspeed
Folks, sometimes the US is not actually this all powerful nation that puppeteers the rest of the world and other countries have their own agency that leads to situations the US cannot and does not control.
vodkaho
You are correct of course. Nonetheless, we instigate much, and provide many countries the resources with their own instability projects.
purpledd
The country supplying 70% of the weapons fueling the genocide is absolutely capable of halting those weapons transfers, which would substantially reduce and potentially end the genocide. At the very minimum, it would eliminate US culpability in the genocide.
CHARCHIMUS
This is a cash grab. War is profit. Go look and see who has stocks in companies that would benefit from another war, then see how they vote. Also, see who is lobbied to by what interests, and check their voting records. You probably wont be surprised to find that many politicians are shills looking out for their own bottom line. I just wish people would stop killing each other, and that lobbying was illegal. Is that so much to ask lol
DJOldguy
#2 We can only hope that Israel keeps its response modest, like one missile into a Revolutionary Guard compound. That is just to show Iran that nowhere is safe from an Israeli rocket attack.
Seanspeed
You're in the wrong place mate. People here would rather see Iran and the extremist Islamic fundamentalists win over Israel. They will get upset if Israel defends itself.
DJOldguy
No, I don't thinks so... and that is a pretty asshole statement...
Seanspeed
It's not an asshole statement to state the truth. This place hates Israelis and does not respect Israel's right to defend themselves at all.
DJOldguy
Calling out Netanyahu's bullshit does not equate to hating Israel. What HAMAS did was truly awful, but what Netanyahu has done since is a shit load worse. Why did HAMAS do it? Putrin asked Iran to stir up HAMAS, to distract from Ukraine. Netanyahu is getting worse now because Trump asked him to step it up. None of which means anyone here hates Israel. If you can't see this then you're blind, mate!
Seanspeed
I've literally seen highly upvoted posts saying that all Israelis are genocidal savages. Not Netanyahu, ALL Israelis. If you really cant recognize the hatred for Israel and open anti-Zionist rhetoric you're either part of that group yourself and just dont have enough self awareness to see it, or you're turning a massive blind eye to it. All the rhetoric is 100% focused on demonizing Israel and never saying anything about the people attacking them. This is NOT a good guys vs bad guys story.
woozle
MAGICxMURDERxBAG
[Prozac-ing Stops]
redkintoba
Mine dont work anymore
WoopDeFrickenDoo
Affray
Tiggums
Tough side effects: http://imgur.com/c1EUW
HandoB4Javert
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
They're so full of shit. Escalation to de-escalation, when they want the violence to continue. The American government will cheer when Israel occupied a bunch of land and declared Greater Israel.
Xenominim
It's ridiculous they're even reporting it as some new strategy. Beat your enemy until they're forced to give in is war, that's what war has always been and it's exactly what they're describing.
Seanspeed
The US government has been against Israeli settlement strategy. Y'all, as always, dont know what the fuck you're talking about.
purpledd
Oh we're great with words for sure. I'm sure you also remember that Rafah red line?
Thornaxe
At what point has the us govt actually out any teeth to that position?
Seanspeed
Pretty much never. I've had many criticisms about this stuff before. But they absolutely are not 'cheering' for it at all as was being claimed. There's many things the US has not reacted to with all kinds of geopolitical situations where such inaction is absolutely not the same thing as cheering for whatever shitty thing is happening. Do we think the US 'cheered' on the Rwandan genocide, for instance?
damogen
The US is *officially* against the settlement strategy. But keep supplying the weapons and funding Israel needs to continue the settlement strategy.
Seanspeed
Weapons and funding are not going to 'settlements'. That's not a military operation, ffs.
mutingisforcowardsandsycophants
What fucking pedantry. We send money and weapons to the Israeli government.
Even if "those dollars" don't go directly towards subsidizing settlements or "those weapons" aren't directly arming their security forces protecting the settlements, we're increasing their available resources to do so.
And how do you know they aren't going directly to them anyway? Because Israel says so? Doesn't matter. Either way, the US government funds and supports the settlements.
damogen
no... but the settlements are a big part of why these attacks keep happening. So in order to keep settling, they need weapons for all the attacks.
Seanspeed
Man you're desperately moving the goalposts here. lol I assure you that the attacks would happen with or without the settlements. But you can go trying to justify and defend Hamas' actions if you want. smh
shardix
Did you know you can say one thing and then go do a completely different, opposite thing?
Seanspeed
The US does like Israeli settlement program at all. It's been a huge thorn in their effort to find some kind of negotiated compromise to the whole situation. Just because they dont do anything about it doesn't mean they support it.
Seanspeed
*not like, whoops
Seanspeed
Y'all keep proving how utterly fucking ignorant you are about this stuff, holy shit. This is all basic, widely known stuff, but it seems to be fucking news to most of y'all somehow. You're like Covid anti-vaxxers who became online experts on virology and vaccines nearly overnight. lol
redkintoba
There isn't any need for pretending. America and Israel are genocidal nations and no one has the balls to intervene
Seanspeed
Israel are defending themselves from groups that openly state they want to kill all Jews, ffs. That's their actual goa. And somehow Israel are the singular bad guys in this narrative? For fuck's sake. Iran is trying to intervene to help these groups kill all Israelis. Are y'all on Iran's side now? ffs you guys are so disgusting.
purpledd
Was Hind Rajab wanting to kill any Jews? The thousands of children murdered and mutilated by the IDF? WTF are you talking about? And I clearly mention that Iran's terrorists are not a benevolent force. But when you compare all these terrorists, there's one that has murdered tens of thousands of innocent men, women, children, and babies in the last 12 months. I have no problems criticizing Iran, but this brain-dead logic of Israel "defending itself" is the most idiotic and false take here.
redkintoba
You're either a troll or you're a perfect example of the delusional person that can look at this situation an claim Israel is the victim here. Israel has killed more civilians in the last year than any other conflict in recent history. What they are doing are blatant war crimes and they will be brought to justice.
damogen
In another comment on this same post YOU said that the Iran attack was purely symbolic.
Israel is killing tens of thousands of people almost exclusively innocent civilians who have absolutely nothing to do with those terrorist groups. Those are NOT symbolic attacks.
Seanspeed
I didn't say it was symbolic, ffs. And why do you think Iran is lobbing missiles over in the first place? Israel didn't attack Iran, did they? Nope. It's because Iran are the ones backing the extremist terrorist groups that constantly attack Israel. Hezbollah has been regularly attacking Israel with missiles over the years, and especially over the past year. But no, you guys have no issues with that. It's only when Israel gets fucking sick of it and responds that you guys take issue.
damogen
The specific phrase you used was:
"Many missiles were not shot down, but Iran was not targeting populated areas in most cases. This was all on purpose. This was all bog standard national performative geopolitics."
I just shortened it
Seanspeed
That is not the same as saying it was symbolic. Anyways I will ignore the semantics argument just as you're going to conveniently ignore the entire rest of my post because you know it's damning.
TrustMeImADog
"There needs to be an immediate ceasefire across the entire Middle East NOW". Figure out how to enforce that, and there's a Nobel Peace Prize in it for you. There's a catch, though. You're not allowed to simply eradicate the side you have decided are the bad guys. Go.
Potatoid
Sanctions
purpledd
You know, I wish I had that answer. But a very simple measure would be to stop sending the offensive weapons being used to murder and blow up children. That might be a good start. Even Reagan was able to do that to some degree.
TrustMeImADog
Most of wish we had the answer, and therein lies the problem. We can say "every innocent death is a tragedy", and 100% mean it, but until we figure out how to stop it, we're in danger of just basically sending "thoughts and prayers", however well intentioned. But let's look at what you propose, because you're not alone in calling for that. I'm not clear on what distinguishes an "offensive" weapon from a "defensive" weapon. It seems to me a weapon is a weapon, designed to harm or kill.
purpledd
Let's make it simple. We'll continue funding/arming the iron dome and other anti-missile weaponry not used on civilians. For everything else, Israel is on its own.
TrustMeImADog
And the difficulty if we stop arming one side is how do we ensure that this is reflected on the other side? Particularly when we're not the ones arming them? The principle behind the blockade of Gaza was supposedly to stop the flow of weapons in (a principle i support in theory but criticise in practice, because it failed - if anything Hamas are better armed now than in 2006).
purpledd
You know the blockade affected all sorts of ordinary items and directly contributed to the misery and hopelessness in Gaza, right? https://politicstoday.org/no-chocolate-no-laptops-no-clothes-for-gaza/ https://www.reutersor-gaza/">https://politicstoday.org/no-chocolate-no-laptops-no-clothes-for-gaza">.com/art">or-gaza/">https://politicstoday.org/no-chocolate-no-laptops-no-clothes-for-gaza/ https://www.reuters.com/article/world/israel-gaza-blockade-study-calculated-palestinians-calories-idUSBRE89G0NM/ https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/un-report-israels-blockade-has-devastated-gaza-economy These are all pre-2023, and there's plenty more. Even chocolate was blocked.
TrustMeImADog
And we can't really look to history, because there has never been a conflict quite like this, so sectarian and so violent. Given the need to combat competing extreme idealogies (there are hard line Israelis who give Hamas a run for their money, I know!), best I can do is think maybe we should try the tactic of the Allies post WW2, where Germany and Japan were occupied for decades for reeducation. But there's not the stomach for that anywhere, and I can't guarantee it wouldn't make things worse
MyDogWasBestDog
No one injured in today's attack? For real?
VincitQuiSeVincit
"1 Palestinian civilian killed (by intercepted rocket); 2 Israeli civilians lightly injured, 2 Jordanian civilians injured (by shrapnel)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_2024_Iranian_strikes_against_Israel
PballQhead
One person, a Palestinian. Way to fuckin' go, Iran…how to win friends and influence people! "Palestinian media reports indicate that 37-year-old Sameh al-Asali, a labourer originally from Jabalia in the Gaza Strip, was killed by shrapnel near occupied West Bank's Jericho.
Four other Palestinians were also injured by shrapnel from the same missile attack."
https://www.newarab.com/news/iran-missile-shrapnel-kills-palestinian-west-bank-governor
Navrodel
More proof that Palestine has no (nation-scale) allies, Israel just has a lot of enemies. It's also the biggest reason why Israel is so flippant about pissing around in the region - if war escalates, they'll protect themselves with the military aid that even pro-Palestinian Americans can't justify stripping from them, and their genocidal goal will be furthered anyway as Palestinians get caught in the cross fire.
whereismymind86
yeah, that's an obvious lie, they just want to seem invincible to try and intimidate iran. The iron dome is damn good, but not that good
Seanspeed
Many missiles were not shot down, but Iran was not targeting populated areas in most cases. This was all on purpose. This was all bog standard national performative geopolitics. Iran did something very similar some months ago. Iran does not want to start a full war with Israel. Israel has nuclear weapons and Iran does not. It would not end well for Iran.
masarian
One commentator said there was one Palestinian casualty but I could not find a source to validate the claim
MyDogWasBestDog
Roughly 200 ... Mostly ballistic misiles ... Minimal or no casualties ... That's almost fucking miraculous.
BobisBobIsHimIsMe
Iran targeted the airfield housing F-16s used earlier to attack Lebanon.
Iran wasn’t targeting civilians like Israel does.
charondaboatman
Slow movers, high fliers easy targets for Patriot or Iron Dome anti-missle systems. They’re extraordinarily effective systems. Fast movers, low fliers, like cruise missiles are harder to track and hit.
crazaProblemStar
You'd think they were effective, but there's quite a lot of video out there of the attack showing a LOT of the missiles got through... and those were easy targets!
That's not an "extraordinarily effective" system... it's a "waste of time and money that was used to persuade voters that they were safe from retaliation" system.
mrthewhitee
Seems like it was meant to cost Israel resources and money more than direct damage.
It was likely meant to be symbolic, like April's attack.
Alternatively, they could be using munitions they know will be intercepted in order to exhaust the iron dome.
In either case, that is the fear they're trying to instill, that the iron dome won't be ready for a Lebanon or Iranian assault at some point.
charondaboatman
Most likely. If they were really trying to accomplish a successful attack, they’d swarm the system with multiple waves of different missile systems. But, it would most likely exhaust their supply of weapons. So. A “slap fight”.
Seanspeed
Iran has thousand of missiles. They produce them like crazy specifically meant for a potential war against Israel and/or the US. If they really wanted to cause Israel a bunch of damage, they could do so and still have plenty of missiles left.
mrthewhitee
Much like the April attack, it was likely largely meant to be symbolic and cost Israel money and resources more than actual damage.
MyDogWasBestDog
Yeah ... I kind of thought this was the case ... Still .. pucker factor considerable assuming the nuclear capabilities of those missiles.
mrthewhitee
The other threat is that the iron dome isn't infinite. It's possible Iran may be intentionally depleting their munitions to allow hezbollah rockets to land later on.
MyDogWasBestDog
Unlikely ... This was probably a face saving "we'll rain fire on the infidels for killing our leader" type of thing. Iran would also have to consider the consequences of pissing them off even more. None of their leaders would be thinking " sure they killed that guy ... But it won't happen to me " right now.
damogen
It's weird how the "bad guy" Iran always has a fairly measured, and mostly symbolic response. While Israel and Saudi, who are our allies, always respond by killing thousands of civilians.