OlivetheNerd
17482
472
16
This is my post of shame, but it needed to be made. It might also be my last one.
I like to learn things, and make educational posts about the things that I've learned.
I'm always very meticulous about going through sources and citing them. I don't handle topics that I know would go way over my head because I don't want to spread misinformation. I also don't pretend to know things that I don't.
My post on The Radium Girls, for example, I gave several warnings that my understanding of radiation overall was not very clear - I was only confident in how radium affected our bones, and I tried really hard to emphasize that.
Even still, I'm not always 100% accurate on what I post, even when I think I've gotten it right.
Just because someone has gone through great lengths to explain a complicated topic, and cited a million sources, it doesn't mean that any of it is correct. Don't be afraid to share the content with an expert for a double-check.
Check the comments as well.
There's always one or two people that present something like an insane conspiracy theory, but if an overwhelming amount of the comments are protesting the post, it's probably a dud.
Yesterday, I tried to tell the story of The Guildford Four and Maguire Seven. This includes going over an extremely complicated topic called "The Troubles."
I got all of it wrong not once, but twice. Even when I posted edits, those edits were wrong. I got quite a few messages and comments from people that lived during The Troubles saying that the misinformation in my post was not only wrong, it was offensive.
They said that I shouldn't be making posts about topics that I don't understand, and I agree. I bit off more than I could chew, and as a result, I trivialized a deeply traumatic event for a lot of people who lived through it.
Honestly, this has me reconsidering whether I should continue to be on Imgur, because there were many other comments praising how informative it was.
I love learning things when I learn them correctly, and the thought of teaching other people these things incorrectly is deeply upsetting to me.
.
.
Both The Troubles and The Guildford Four were deeply impactful to me because they're a profound story about prejudice, oppression, violence, and the ugly side of humanity and how we survive it.
People suffered. 3,500 people died. Others had their homes and businesses destroyed. Eleven people (and probably more) were framed for a violent crime that they didn't commit, going so far as to make a note to not show important evidence to the defense.
There was so much needless devastation, and the healing after it has been rough.
However, just because a story moves you doesn't mean that you have any business telling it.
I'm sorry.
History Website: https://www.history.com/articles/the-troubles-northern-ireland
New Humanist Magazine’s Article on The Legacy of The Troubles: https://newhumanist.org.uk/articles/5495/confronting-the-legacy-of-the-troubles
Eastern Mennonite University: https://emu.edu/now/peacebuilder/2009/02/a-brief-history-of-the-troubles/
The Council of Foreign Relations: https://education.cfr.org/learn/reading/understanding-northern-irelands-troubles
This is a PBS Documentary about The Troubles: https://www.ninepbs.org/blogs/history/once-upon-a-time-in-northern-ireland/
Footage of “Bloody Sunday”, One of the Most Violent Incidents: https://youtu.be/5pEPO5JKqTg?si=ruAY_v-PmPHLVX2Z
More Footage For Those Curious: https://youtu.be/1GHJNJG3Zho?si=k18VbkV_uYlskAfD
Bundalicious
Good one ya for admitting your mistakes, takes a real person to do that.
TheVillageGrouch9000
So much disinformation is posted here and gets upvotes anyway. Sheeple.
canadaslittlereader
Love the message and the personal accountability!!! Thank you!!
1yamia1
I have taught at a college for 20 years. The first day I meet my students, I ask them if they trust me. When they reply yes, I tell them not to. I tell them that I am an expert in one very narrow subject, and have, and will continue to make mistakes. I will never intentionally lead them astray, but errors happen. I then challenge them to question everything, to do their own peer reviewed research. This is the process of learning. Bravo to you for this post, and please continue posting.
katoutwo8
Takes guts to admit you were wrong. My respect for you increases by doing so.
Antininny
let me fix that for you
viva93
Reminds me of the Marseilles papers regarding covid and it's first spread and treatment. It got circulated around all 400+ pages of it and it was used heavily for online defense and initial response to covid that non treatment/others except anti malaria was successful. If you actually read all of it (I did) you realize immediately they cherry picked special cases with heavy bias and ignored virtually every rule of making controls and was an anomally to say the least. still took 5years to retract
DevilsAdvocat
you're going to get a lot of people jumping onto this bandwagon with praise for you correcting a mistake, but here's the issue I have with that.. they're right, and I don't get to sound high and mighty, lording over people over how I alone spotted someone taking the high road, admitting a mistake, and righting their unintentional wrong : P
many people double/triple down (or worse) here against overwhelming corrections so good job owning it, and correcting it and learning from it
Kawaiifive0101
Peer review is a necessary part of the process. :)
Kawaiifive0101
UR DOIN' GOOD DON'T STOP POSTING <3
khaoselement
My personal favorite is when people post blatantly bad info and the comments pointing that out are the downvoted comments. Woman posting about YouTube's algorithm, and her "proof" was she went into incognito mode and still was suggested the same stuff. Incognito mode does fucking NOTHING for tracking info. When I and others pointed this out we were all downvoted and mocked.
dreikommavierzehn
Agree, just chiming in about "if an overwhelming amount of the comments are protesting the post, it's probably a dud"
By all means read the comments and think about it. But ignore the vote counts. I can go back in my history and still see how some of my most downvoted comments were from a time when people around loved posting "oil from dinosaurs" memes and not wanting to learn that this is pretty much wrong.
Similarly I've gotten negative reactions for "no, microwaves don't 'hurt' your food"
OlivetheNerd
I totally agree. I meant the amount of comments, rather than the upvotes.
Just because a comment is unpopular, doesn’t mean it’s wrong.
MelfsAcidArrow
I saw the first picture and went “haha I bet this is Olive” and then I looked at the poster name. lol.
southoffrance
I once read a fascinating book in 3 volumes called Black Athena by Martin Bernal, a very clever and educated man who did a lot of research and spent years writing it. Unfortunately his thesis (that Western civilisation derives from Egypt, not Greece) is almost certainly wrong but he never conceded that despite heavy criticism from experts in the field. You've admitted your mistakes and that makes you the better man. Keep learning and keep writing.
southoffrance
Or perhaps from your handle, I should have said the better woman!
CrumpetsWithHoneyAreCrumpetsWithBeeVomit
Kudos for this post though. Look something as complicated as The Troubles, that spanned decades, is simply not going to be explained accurately in an Imgur post. It's that simple. And history is serious business that requires tomes not posts to learn about. However I give you points for admitting mistakes. It's more than refreshing. +1
xxPaulCPxx
Yesterday I was scheduled to give a presentation at work on some specifics of the software we work with. The person who had the idea for the training (and knew the most about it) had a death in her family and couldn't review my material with me until right before the meeting. I had gotten a few things COMPLETELY wrong, and used really bad examples to illustrate points. I had to cancel a meeting 167 people were invited to just before we got started. Egg, meet face. I feel ya buddy.
Onlyhereforthelaughs
And ANY sort of Missing Person post, NEVER trust the number given, ALWAYS look up the number for the given area PD to verify it.
HolyFreakingToast
what is your tl/dr - what did you assert that was incorrect?
BrokenAnimal
As a teacher of 20+ years, I tell my pupils that whatever they might otherwise think, I am an expert in one area, and one area alone; teaching.
I have several years of education on the topic, and I've practiced it for more than two decades. It is the one subject where I know for a fact that I know more than almost any random person I might meet.
That doesn't mean that I don't hold opinions on other topics, but I always keep the door open for the fact that I might have gotten it wrong.
OlivetheNerd
This is a great outlook to have. Your students are very lucky to have you!
barfopedia
Now that you have learned a lesson, please don't deprive your imgur fans of the better accuracy that will come with your new self knowledge.
akelamishari
Don’t leave, all posts will have something wrong or oversimplified or misunderstood, BUT just put a disclaimer that its your understanding, not hard fact. Its ok to make mistakes, better to admit you did, and even better to learn from it and improve
darthsimian771
I hope you stay on Imgur. You have such an interesting voice and I love how much effort and research you put into your posts. They are always a joy to read. The Troubles are an almost impossible topic to take on in short form. The amount of misinformation and cover up that went on is difficult to comprehend. It still persists and how quickly it was all brushed under the carpet in the mainland U.K. mainstream was staggering. It’s so difficult to navigate. Don’t be so hard on yourself.
mafiacarstarter
*poring
GlutenFreeCocaineWaffles
OlivetheNerd
I thought I’d gotten that wrong. Thanks.
CatPlanetQueen9000
this also highlights one of the main underlying problems with AI
OlivetheNerd
God, I hate AI for that reason. I refuse to use it as much as possible. Sure, it could probably do the work quicker, but that doesn’t mean that it will do it correctly.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
"I am really fast at maths"
"14x78?"
"497"
"That's not even close"
"But it was fast."
BatmanDeadpoolSlenderMan
Has anyone seen those database sites that hold information from primary sources like NIH or CDC but you can use them like a search engine? For instance: https://clinicalgate.com/fetal-physiology I don't really trust these but I've noticed a lot more people citing these sites instead of primary sources. Personally I think these sites include more biases and non peer reviewed sources. I'm curious to see how others feel about them.
slinkiisu
Poring*
Omnislash9
Don't leave us olive! The kind of person with the balls and humility to admit they made a mistake and own it are exactly the kind of people we want to stick around.
AntaNce
THIS! exactly this. People who are big enough to own their mistakes are definitely quality people & those who *do* have value. It ain't easy
cheeriossuckbecause7
As a historian, what you're doing now is spot-on. One always wants to reevaluate and critique sources; blithely assuming their correctness is a good way to get one's ass chewed on by others. I would say that taking care against offense is also good; however, the nature of learning is such that we're inevitably going to make mistakes. And some people will always scream about offense, no matter how accurate your work. This is the nature of people. Continue challenging your biases, and good on ya.
Whurm
This.
Some things I learned in grad school were wrong. Just be open to being corrected.
aducksayswhat
I haven't studied a lot of history, but one thing that did sink in was some things to keep in mind about the different types of sources, their motivations, what info survived or didn't, motivations, etc. It's a tough challenge to get closer to the truth. I think it's even tougher on the modern internet and on the medium of an image sharing site, which rewards quick short form to convey a complex topic with a lot to cover, even as background before the main item
cheeriossuckbecause7
This is all true. There's no room for context on the internet, because context interferes with the quick nature of sound & text bites. Primary sources can be wrong, subject to bias, etc., as well, and all of these challenge the practice of history at this point in time. Good on ya for pointing these out - these are challenges that need to be recognized.
DJOldguy
That is great advice, pity so many otherwise intelligent people can't follow it.
TheeKeelhaul
Thank you for being a historian! What's your favorite historical event/era/period?
cheeriossuckbecause7
If you mean me, my focus was on 19th/20th crntury imperialism. Great way to understamd what's going on in the world, and why. The ties current events have to the past are obvious, when one recognizes the connections.
TheeKeelhaul
Thank you for answering! I agree.
History is the most important subject in a lot of ways. Too many people don't recognize its value. And again, thanks for being a historian!
cheeriossuckbecause7
Well, you're very welcome. I agree that history is critical though admittedly I'm just a bit biased.
OlivetheNerd
This actually makes me feel a little bit better. I might not give up, but I’m DEFINITELY going to re-evaluate my capabilities.
I’d just really hate it if I presented damaging misinformation.
lujotu
Def don’t leave Imgur entirely, that strikes me as an overreaction. Sounds like this was productive for you though, and that’s commendable
RyvaTheRenamon
A real historian admits when he was wrong and changes his view on the subject, just like a good scientist would.
You owning up to this is not a fuck up.
vwzzjxv6f9101
We all make mistakes. What makes us a better? Being able to learn from them and to admit when we are wrong. History is written by flawed individuals and institutions. One must remember to take it with a grain of salt and a bit of skepticism. Always seek truth you may not find it but keep looking.
cheeriossuckbecause7
Mistakes are going to happen. We do the best we can, and we learn from them, so as to minimize the likelihood of repeating them. Giving up is the only real failure. Don't let anyone push you into that, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Good on ya, for trying. The world needs storytellers, especially of facts. Now, perhaps, more than ever, with the attempts to weaponize facts for political agendas.
SliferTheEP
100% this. Life is a collaborative effort, and correcting yourself is impressive as all hell these days
widiwi
Go on. Get your Nerd on.
OlivetheNerd
I think I will.
widiwi
Dansosaur
You also have to bear in mind that the troubles were and still are an incredibly controversial topic, one of the most controversial things you could bring up. No matter how factual nor accurate you are, there will always be swarms of people lined up to tell you that you're wrong. The amount of propaganda printed, misinformation spread & lies retold over the years are insurmountable. People have vastly different views on the matter, and those views are often very strongly held.
OlivetheNerd
That’s comforting to read, but I was REALLY OFF. To the point where I said that Ireland officially got its independence in 1998. It was that bad.
thundercactus
I feel like native history in Canada runs a parallel theme of 'polarizing, controversial, and guaranteed to make people upset'. It's a more complex topic than people realize, and even if you're giving the facts, and even perspective from both sides, AND get everything accurate, you're still gonna get shit on.
Which brings up a point I'm sure you're familiar with: history isn't just facts, it's also invariably perspective and opinion as well.
Dansosaur
It's okay to be wrong, and honestly putting yourself out there and trying to help educate others is one of the fastest ways to learn! Don't let it dissuade or embarass you. Keep reading about these topics that interest you. Post about them, discuss with people and so long as you're willing to accept that you're going to make mistakes, and own those mistakes (like you're already doing), you'll learn each time and soon be the closest thing to an expert that there ever was.
IupvoteAussies
Out of curiosity, what led to that specific mistake? Lots of things about the Troubles are disputed, but not that bit
OlivetheNerd
I thought The Good Friday Deal marked independence for ALL of Ireland, and not just a resolution to the conflict about whether Northern Ireland would remain British or not.
5MillionAlcoholicsClingingToARock
Well done.
Saw the original post. I didn't downvote or comment, I just moved on. It was not an easy one to "let through to the keeper"; I lived in London in the 70's, 80's and 90's and narrowly missed two bombings (was 400yards away from the Hyde Park bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyde_Park_and_Regent%27s_Park_bombings and I missed the Victoria Station bomb having passed through the concourse 4 minutes prior https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombings_of_Paddington_and_Victoria_stations 1/?
OlivetheNerd
Mostly though, I’m just so sad that this happened to you, your loved ones, and everyone else.
Just watching the footage is heartbreaking.
5MillionAlcoholicsClingingToARock
On the mainland, our burden was nought compared to those caught-up in it over the other side of the Irish Sea. No winners.
5MillionAlcoholicsClingingToARock
There was huge misinformation and misunderstanding of all facets of this lamentable period in history. There were no winners. Just suffering. And terror. Living that for decades and it always being in the back of your mind is not something I wish on anyone.
Of course, it is understandable how things got to that point, but innocents on all sides were affected.
Thank you for the retraction and for learning. We are still learning and unlearning together. 2/2
OlivetheNerd
I’m so sorry that you went through such a traumatic experience, and I’m sorry if my terrible post struck a raw nerve.
Please know that it wasn’t intentional, and that I never meant to be arrogant. I have never misunderstood my sources cited as much as I did this time.
I’m honestly bewildered with myself because normally history is a very big strong point for me. No matter how I did this post though, I just couldn’t get those details right.
5MillionAlcoholicsClingingToARock
Stop beating yourself up over it. I'm ok with it because you made every attempt to understand what happened and to learn from it. We become better through sharing and learning.
OlivetheNerd
Thanks. Like I said, I’m so sorry that this terrible event happened to you to begin with. I can’t imagine living through it. Thank you for sharing the little bit that you did share.
5MillionAlcoholicsClingingToARock
To be fair, you probably can imagine it. Our experience was just drip-fed to us over 30 years or more, those struggling with their Republican desires for longer still. Assuming from your posting history you are in the US, then you guys were abruptly brought-up-to-speed on living with terror on 11 September 2001. Again, no winners.