Why you can't change flat-earthers' minds.

Aug 19, 2017 5:59 PM

ArsenicSauce

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TL;DR at bottom

Before I begin this post, allow me explain myself. I'm in no way a professional in any field. I haven't even begun college yet (that's in a few days), but I'd like to give my input on what seems to confuse many, many people. I've had a good bit of experience with "conspiracy theorists," who believe a wide range of ideas, which I will list very shortly. I will clarify that I do not agree with these views. I just want to state them all to show a recurring theme.

Above is the flat-earther's image of what the Earth truly looks like. The north "pole" lies in the center, while magnetic/geographic south is simply away from that center point. Eratosthenes' "proof" that the Earth is a globe can also be demonstrated by a "spotlight" Sun, greatly decreased in size, only a few hundred miles above the surface of the planet. Gravity is not real, but is instead simply acceleration upward at a rate of 9.81 m/s/s (Einstein's theory of general relativity proved that we wouldn't be able to tell the difference). Why would NASA and the world governments want you to believe that the Earth is round? Because that way God is removed from the image, and Earth appears as just another chance event in the history of the universe.

The terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001 were an inside job. Theories on this vary greatly, though they do rely on the overly-memed terms "Bush did 9/11" and "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams." The most common variation seems to be that the American government knew about the attack, but allowed the terrorists to commit their actions anyway. Some believe that the "terrorists" were actually American operatives put in place by the federal government. Fewer, though still a confusingly high amount, believe that there never were any planes; instead, the towers were struck by cruise missiles with surrounding holograms made to look like planes (no, I'm not joking). One person that I knew even believed that nothing struck the towers at all. They were explosives placed inside the building, and all the rest is the result of visual fakery and mass brainwashing. The American government wanted us to blame the Al Qaeda so that we could go to war in the Middle East to take control of oil.

The moon landings were a hoax. Mankind has never been to the Moon. We've never been able to pass the Van Allen belts. All of it was filmed on a set, and the American people have been fooled ever since. Why? Because we wanted to show Russia we were superior to them during the Cold War. We tried to get to space, and when we couldn't, we faked the whole thing, and nobody was the wiser.

And finally, one that you should all be very familiar with. Vaccines cause increased rates of autism in children. Despite the only "proof" being a scientific paper that has repeatedly been invalidated, some people still believe this to be true. Again, the reasons can vary, from population control to brainwashing. The government continues, however, to push for people to vaccinate their children because "it's in everyone's best interest."

There are many, many more theories. "Contrails from airplanes are actually poison gas called 'chemtrails,' and they're used for population control." "Fluorine in toothpaste is used by the government to numb your brain, making you weaker-minded and susceptible to Jedi mind tricks." (Okay, maybe I added that last one for comic relief.) The list goes on and on. But do you notice a recurring theme? All of these theories have one common, core belief, and without them the argument falls apart. It is the backbone of the theory. Without it, the view cannot survive.

"The government is lying to you."

This statement pervades every conspiracy theory that I've come across. It's a scary concept. We want to believe our government. We want to know that a government of the people and by the people will indeed be for the people. The government is often idealized as the benefactor for the people of its country. When all else fails, the government will surely have a plan to put things back the way they used to be. If not, then revolution ensues, and a new, better government is formed. But it should be there to help the people. It should be open and honest, and the people should not be lied to. But that doesn't always happen the way we'd like it to. When a politician is proven to be dishonest, the people outrage. Many dystopian novels feature a government that lies to its people, and it is always the villain of the story. Books like 1984 feature a common people that attempt to rise up as protagonists against a deceitful government. People don't want to be lied to, and especially not by those they elect into a position of power.

The most powerful feature of that statement, "The government is lying to you," is that it is very difficult, and at times even impossible, to disprove. Throughout my few years of hearing those conspiracies, I have not encountered any consistently successful argument to that claim. Perhaps the reason pertains to how much our American government pervades into the lives of the people. Who provides government information to the media? The government. Who controls what is put into textbooks? The government.

-"How do you know the Earth is round?"
"Everyone knows that. This person proved it this way, and that person proved it another way."
-"Where did you learn that?"
"In school."
-"Ah, see, your education was lying to you. That's what the government wants you to think."
"But I also learned from this guy."
-"Where did he learn it?"
"Probably from school."
-"Exactly."
"What about the pictures of the Earth?"
-"They're faked by NASA, which is a government organization."

The cycle can continue for hours, and never truly get anywhere. The easiest way to prove to someone that their conspiracy is incorrect is to show it to them and allow them to see it with their own two eyes, and sometimes that's very difficult to do, especially with the materials on hand (say you're in the office trying to convince someone that vaccines don't actually cause autism.) Their argument will almost always fall back on a statement similar to "That person is lying" or "That organization is lying" because "they're controlled by the government." It's nearly impossible to get around, and because there's no clear-cut answer, they are allowed to continue thinking the way that they do.

I can't give you a response that consistently disproves the "lying government" statement. If any of you know of one, please share it, because it's important that misinformation isn't allowed to spread. Look, if you believe any of those above arguments, then that's your choice. But I would request that you take a long, honest look at the facts, and consider your own argument. If your point is entirely based on the lazy statement that "The government is lying," then perhaps you should reconsider your point. If it isn't provable, then you shouldn't continue to argue it. If your argument just cycles back to itself as "proof," then it isn't proof. It's a logical fallacy.

Thank you for taking the time to read. I know it was long, but you made it. Pat yourself on the back, and pat your dog on the head. Have a wonderful weekend.

TL;DR, as promised: Many conspiracy theories rely on the un-arguable statement, "The government is lying to you." FP Edit: Wow! First time making Most Viral! You guys are amazing. Send the craziest conspiracy theories you've ever heard

There are things that are very popular and socially acceptable to believe, that ultimately depend on a pretty unlikely conspiracy theory.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

While i do hate the government with a passion i think these people are nutso

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You know what can destroy steel beams?... a fucking plane crashing into it

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

If Earth was flat, cats would've pushed everything off by now.

8 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 1

This should really have more green pointy things. You may have one of mine.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

I don't believe any of these, however it's not out of the realm off possibility, I think, for the gov't to have had a hand in 9/11.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 1

Brilliant (and I am a part time consumer of conspiracy theories for fun). Did you intentionally leave out the Kennedy assassination?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Ask them to explain the aurora borealis. Then ask them to explain the aurora austrailus.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

First pic. Always live me some VSauce vids

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

My argument for the govt lying is that they have enough power to silence anyone, and since this person isnt dead, then it must be false.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

The planes where a hologram. Uhm what about the people that had family in the planes that fucking died

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

How do you know the earth is round? Because I can do experiments, myself, and prove it. Fucking Science Bitch.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Ahem. "What would the government gain from convincing us of that?"

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

In some cases they have reasons, though. Like going to war in Afghanistan or beating the Soviet Union in the space race

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

True. Not all cases, though.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Stuff like this. I come to Imgur to learn more about the kooky fringes in our society. They have a great platform here. :-)

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

No government could be, has been or will be competent enough to maintain that many secrets for that many years.

8 years ago | Likes 64 Dislikes 7

lol wow.

8 years ago | Likes 8 Dislikes 2

Check out the Gulf of Tonkin incident. It took DECADES before the information was released. It was a false flag to get us into a war.

8 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 2

ça a durée 10 ans maxi ton truc... la terre ronde c'est depuis 2300 ans que cela dure. C'est fort quand même.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

When they claim that "the government this or that" the burden of prof is on them not you. So make them prove that that did what they say.1/2

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

It doesn't always work, mostly they just claim that "everyone knows thst" or something like that but sometimes you get through. Try it.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Good idea. I'll give it a go

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You're kind of overlooking all the non-government entities that have sent objects into space. Elon Musk would like to have a word with you.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Had a friend recently say that's there's no evidence of 9/11 being a hoax because why would the government leave evidence. What a dumbass.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

With the Earth accelerating at 9.8 m/s^2 would that not mean we would be traveling the speed of light within a year?

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

Technically, no. Given our current understanding of the universe, if you have mass you can get closer and closer to c but never reach it.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Great point! I wasn't stating we were but if we were in fact "accelerating" we would eventually hit a limit and "gravity" would be reduced

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

But you don't reach any limit. Here's a video that tries to explain it better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI2OPCdGXkw

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Sounds like your mind was closed before you even did any investigation. Don't look, don't find.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 3

Okay.. but what about the fact that it's been proven hundreds of times over that we are being actively lied to?

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 6

Lying about economy is different from maintaining a complex conspiracy for years or decades

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

True, and while I understand some lies are necessary for public good, they still do lie about nefarious things going on behind the scenes

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

THIS belongs here: (Not that all those conned by trump are flat-earthers but all flat-earthers believe MAGA)

8 years ago | Likes 18 Dislikes 7

My argument is "Have you MET people?" The Government is made up of people. People are selfish, short-sighted, greedy, backstabby bastards. -

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 0

If there EVER was a massive conspiracy, there'd be THOUSANDS of people willing to sell the secret out to write a book and get famous/rich-

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 1

"But the government just pays them off or has them killed!" "That just gives the writers even more dirt to expose in their book!"

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

I'm a God fearing man and I despise flat earthers. Takes God out of the equation my arse.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

I'm in the same boat as you, actually. It makes me sad because too often us others are grouped in with them

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I already was patting my dog on the head. Not because you told me to but because I love him.

8 years ago | Likes 24 Dislikes 0

He is a good boy and you are also a good boy.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Good job.

8 years ago | Likes 10 Dislikes 0

I followed a link on facebook recently, and found a POLIO vaccine denialist. Polio. To them, polio was renamed to other things, so therefore

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

claims that the vaccine eliminated it are false because stuff. It had "sources" too, all of which pointed to other polio denialists.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You can't convince these people, they believe they know the truth and any critique is seen as YOU being the ignorant one.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

You're kidding me? I grew up in England in the 50s, 60s, I know polio when I see it, I saw schoolmates stricken with it

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I was appalled. The sheer amount of self-righteous ignorance was amazing. I find it hard to believe anyone is that stupid, but they were.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

TBF governments do do fucked up shit. Remember when the US declassified plans to fake terrorist attacks to justify a cuban invasion?

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Haha do do

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Thing is though goverments also arn't omnipotent. Subtle subterfuge isn't beyond them, but faking the shape of the earth? lol no

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

For any wondering, he's referring to Operation Mongoose https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Project

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

1) @OP I've found that out-conspiracying them is somewhat effective. Accept their premise and take it further. Now the tables have turned

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

4) is repressing it. Einstein, Newton, Michelangelo, all autistic. Deep state realized that autistic geniuses were seeing through their

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

6) puppet organization."

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

5) shadow government. They have to limit vaccines but they can't do it outright so they're using antivaxxer campaigns. You're part of a

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

2) It forces them to confront crazy and makes them use logic and rationale to disprove your batshit theory. Which in turn mean their own

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Hehe. Nice. I like it

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

3) conspiracies have to withstand scrutiny under logic. Ex: "Vaccines cause autism." "True, but autism is a superpower. The government

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

The Earth is round .. "How do you know that?" .. I learned the fundamental philosophies, maths and sciences and tested it. 1/

8 years ago | Likes 75 Dislikes 1

I'm glad your brought that up Mr. SyeedAli, because science is a liar!... Sometimes https://youtu.be/Rqm9X7ftgDo

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

One thousand up votes

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

2/ "Naw fam, that sounds hard. Must be aliens."

8 years ago | Likes 53 Dislikes 0

Also, I have watched the stars in Australia and the UK.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

Answer: "I climbed a fucking tree."

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

But see, it cycles back. "Where did you learn it from? School? You know the gov't controls education, right?"

8 years ago | Likes 19 Dislikes 1

How come here in Australia it's daytime, yet the middle of the night were you are?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Youre missing the part where he tested the theory. It's called an expirement. And colleges arent controlled by the government.

8 years ago | Likes 16 Dislikes 0

To be fair, research colleges have majority commercial donations, and there is a conflict of interest there.. though not for a flat Earth.

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 1

Experiment*

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Asparagus

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Their contention is that even the basic concepts of math and physics are fabricated to come to the conclusions you expect them to be.

8 years ago | Likes 9 Dislikes 0

Well whoever is teaching this crap must be a genius for it to be universal and still pertain to the real world.

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

If the Americans had not gone to the moon, the Russians would immediately ridicule them by claiming falsehood. (1/2)

8 years ago | Likes 213 Dislikes 0

But the government maaan

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

Unless the Russians were also faking their space trips and now we have a cross-continental conspiracy theory spanning two countries!

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

That everyone ever involved in never cracked and told The Truth. Yep.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 0

And you're talking millions, the landings were tracked all over the wolrd by most countries

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I know Americans have gone to the moon but I think they used studio footage as well. Have you seen astronauts on trampolines?

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 41

There's compelling arguments for studio footage being aired as actual footage and I don't think it's that crazy to believe.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 40

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

"I think that there was studio footage being used" - compelling argument, probably.

8 years ago | Likes 4 Dislikes 1

No there isn't. At all

8 years ago | Likes 14 Dislikes 1

Really, how much have you looked into it?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 3

I'm genuinely interested in looking in to this. Do you have any good reads about it?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Okay okay. Bandwagon hate time. I'm sure the government/politicians never lied about anything. Can I have my upvotes back?

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 28

Super duper No crazy pants

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

No.

8 years ago | Likes 12 Dislikes 1

Did they do it? No. They were friends? No (2/2)

8 years ago | Likes 131 Dislikes 0

Competition is 1 way 2 prevent lying such as R vs D & other natl govts & even our own various lvls and branches of govt against each other

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Also, the government leaky as shit how they keeping these kinds of secrets?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Exactly, the Russians would have blown the whistle alright, plus it was also tracked here in Australia at Parkes Radio telescope

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

Not to mention the US launched 7 multi million dollar rockets into the sky that didn't return and could on paper reach the moon

8 years ago | Likes 23 Dislikes 0

That's what the government wants you to think.

8 years ago | Likes 7 Dislikes 1

well i mean, they did. You cant just hide that

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0

All faked. Where did you learn that, school? Holograms.

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 1

That's what the government wants you to believe.

8 years ago | Likes 63 Dislikes 1

When will the governments realize it's got to be funky, sexy ladies?

8 years ago | Likes 1 Dislikes 0

I mean I can't argue with that.

8 years ago | Likes 11 Dislikes 0

It's funny that more Russians than Americans believe that the Americans landed on the moon...

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Oh shit!

8 years ago | Likes 22 Dislikes 0

You are the ones who believe in ghosts?

8 years ago | Likes 2 Dislikes 0

I think that was an American joke, comrade.

8 years ago | Likes 6 Dislikes 0

'Twas indeed lol

8 years ago | Likes 5 Dislikes 0

Brother, I live in Italy and there are those who believe in these conspiracies as real.

8 years ago | Likes 3 Dislikes 0