VoidGearArie
196685
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Jan 12, 2018 7:42 AM
VoidGearArie
196685
4859
129
Vmegan55
I like that Indonesians have to repeat the word to say plural. When you see spiders you say laba-laba laba-laba
stronomer
I think it's called "nuance". But then again, that's a french word, bc english didn't have such a nuanced expression ;-)
kapelophilus
You IS the formal you, wingding. Thou was informal but fell out of style because you sounded more French
kapelophilus
(this is why thou is used by quakers and older version of the Bible: it fits better with the theology of a personal, knowable God)
Macish
Languages are easy to learn through tough thorough thought though right?
Ginkawa
very nice.
VenDei
Accuracy for most of these depends on how closely you look at English. Passing glance, yeah. But you can pick at most.
goflyblind
french is a perfect language:
Ellykos
The system is actually a good way for kids to learn how to count
InnocentBystander37
I'm french and I always thought it doesn't make sense. Belgian's way is more logical (closer to seventy, eighty etc)
icebalm
Japanese doesn't change the whole language based on respect, they just use more words when they don't want to be rude. English does too.
aji7sai
I think they mean like 召し上がる/頂く vs. 食べる, ご存知/存じる vs. 知っている 参る vs. 聞く and so on.
aji7sai
*参る vs. 行く、伺う vs. 聞く -- oops
Mikanojo
For. Four... fore.. 4... Read (reed) Read (red) Reed... Reel.. Real.. Saw(past tense of see) Saw(a cutting tool) Not...Knot...
aabil11
Exactly. In Arabic we don't have this problem
Blahmeistah
“Words don’t change meaning based on tone” *ahem* unionized *ahem*
doctorbees
You can tell the difference between a chemist and a plumber by asking them to pronounce that word.
icanttype
but unionized doesn't change meaning based on tone, it changes meaning based on pronounciation
DrSparken
Which is actually what the post means. Ascending vowel sound or descending change it to a different word. Not things like applying sarcasm.
Alquezar
yeah, sure
o4kill
Thats pronunciation. Tone tells you whether I'm mad at the adjective or not. (Or if it's a question, etc. But tone applies to the sentence.)
JohnCheshirsky
As someone already mentioned (and I agree) the original post means "tone" as in "pronunciation".
o4kill
Sorry, if it's referring to Cantonese that's downright wrong.
JohnCheshirsky
Wait, if I say the same word in Cantonese angrily and happily it'll mean two different things?
Squossifrage
Much of this is untrue, though.
Squossifrage
I mean, English does have a formal “you”: “you”. The second person singular pronoun is “thou”.
Squossifrage
And you do change how you speak depending on who you speak to. Tone, vocabulary, even grammar.
Squossifrage
English makes a lot more sense once you realize it's actually three languages rolled into one.
BayazTheBenevolent
I don't get the one about the comparison between letters and pictures. Letters ARE pictures, just ones we have grown extremely used to.
MinorityOpinion
Letters are symbols or sounds (thobut we have 26 letters for 40 sounds).
evilspyre
It is easier to remember the 26 letters/pictures than the chinese or japanese characters though (since I am trying to learn Japanese)
BayazTheBenevolent
The only difference is that there are more of them.
evilspyre
No there are different readings of the same characters too so it's confusing when you drill down into it.
Higure
"The letters and sounds might not be consistent" English is about the most inconsistently spelled language in the world.
Higure
(And yes, that might be a slight hyperbole, but not much, and you know it.) It's the main thing there is to hate about the language.
SuscriptorJusticiero
^ This. In Spanish, if you see a word written and you know the rules, you definitely know how it is pronounced. In English, good luck.
needsmoarsloths
Greetings from finnish language, let's just add different endings to a single word until it get's ridiculous!
unicorni3st
And then do it again with plurals.
lordmaxwell
"You" IS our formal second person. The antiquated "Thou" is our informal.
rando84
If it hasn't been used for hundreds of years, it's not a functional part of the language. The point is that students of German and Spanish1
rando84
must learn the du/sie & tu/ud. distinction & are expected to use it.2
lordmaxwell
Fair point
WizardProphet
Wanna talk about english pronunciation and how nothing makes sense?
Doumdidoum
As a native french speaker, GOD I AGREE WITH YOU! There's a thousand way to prononce every vowel! And the irregular verbs...
morrmaniac
I think the entire post as a concept just went over your head mate
Auxientius
It can be hard to understand, but definitely mastered through tough thorough thought though.
MrFnortner
Don't confuse spelling with the language itself. You can be fluent in English without the slightest idea how words are spelled.
MrFnortner
Speaking of fluency, I should point out that wanna is not a standard word or contraction in written English, but you probably know that.
DieselBrother
Many native speakers are.
MrFnortner
True of all languages. That's neither good not bad.
AtlanDaGonozal
But English uses the formal one, you, not the informal..
DaChronisseur
A long time ago it was concluded that God was the only entity anyone in England was familiar enough with to address informally. It stuck.
newsguycraigevans
In English "You" is the formal while "Bitch" is informal.
Higure
habisteez
Lot's of things were just died out, today's English is not the same as it was.
newsguycraigevans
I do still enjoy reading Middle English from time to time.
habisteez
For me game of thrones was a bit hard to read :D
evilspyre
You mean Twas ;)
ElioNope
English and tone are VERY much entwined. The classic example is "I never said she stole my money." Stress any word to change the meaning.
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
China takes it to the next level e,g, "The Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den".
tablecat
But the meaning of the individual words is still the same. In Chinese, "ma" can mean like three different things, depending on pronunciation
SuscriptorJusticiero
So you are complaining that there are three entirely different words that have a similar pronunciation?
AmArschdieRaeuber
You can do that in almost every language, what they mean is changing the meaning of a word. Like chinese cai and zai which sound the same
AmArschdieRaeuber
But mean something completely different
ElioNope
If a mean person should play with the lights, it will be hard to play my role in this play; that is if they set the light to play across me.
ElioNope
Content can make a man content. A site that becomes a desert will see the man desert it.
Terminology
Again, something you can do in many languages.
ElioNope
I don't recall stating otherwise.
AmArschdieRaeuber
Yeah I forgot about that ones, true
GabZonY
isn't "you" the formal you? and "thou" the informal? technically?
Irreal
Yes
LordMagnus
This is correct. Quakers often still use "The(e)", and "Thou" in daily speech in line with their theological egalitarianism.
GabZonY
What the hell is a Quaker?
LordMagnus
an active religion within the U.S. It's a nick name. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quakers
GabZonY
Huh.
LordMagnus
My mother is a member. (I am not).
detour512
The crisis he had had had had no effect on his faith.
BayazTheBenevolent
hadadadada
vorodar
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo.
FinlandExists
I think that that "that" that he used was wrong.
Auxientius
The crisis he previously experienced didn’t have an effect on his faith; for those non English speakers that may be confused!
detour512
It's fun!!!!
Rijtjeshuis
I think - functionally - the meaning of any word in any language can change with tone, but I take your point.
chloramphenicolderivative
In mandarin xiao is both laugh and small.
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
This gave me a xiao xiao.
spaceasaurus
Yeah, but in English a (nice) bitch is still a bitch. In Cantonese the way you pronounce/enunciate apple could actually mean waterfall.
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
I would like to direct your attention to "The Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den"
JoNerdly
A lot of these are wrong. We only use one word for future tense? I'm GOING TO disagree with you. >>
JoNerdly
Words don't change meaning based on tone? What does it mean when a woman says she's "fine" then?
AVoiceOfReason
Lying and sarcasm are in every language.
ITalkAboutGoats
Is there sarcasm in ASL? I thought there wasn't.
FragileReality
Pretty sure it’s just regular sign language with a long, drawn-out eyeroll throughout
JoNerdly
And change the meaning of the words based on tone.
AVoiceOfReason
No, what they're referring to is words that mean completely different things because of tone change. They can still lie in their language.
FragileReality
It means you fucked up.
JoNerdly
We don't alter the language based on whether we respect you? We absolutely have a strict standard for "professional" language vs. Informal
AVoiceOfReason
We don't have a separate word for you when talking to elders. You only had one good point and you honestly should have stopped there.
AVoiceOfReason
What you're referring to is how we refrain from slang and immaturity in business and elderly settings. That's utterly irrelevant here.
JoNerdly
Not quite. See "code switching" in reference to dialects.
Dovieandisetouvyasagain
Register is not the same as having grammatically different forms for conjugation like Japanese has.
JoNerdly
Register and dialect code switching is the language changing (sometimes dramatically) based on the formality of the situation.
JoNerdly
It isn't the same, but OP doesn't specify conjugation. It says we don't change the language based on how much we respect you.
JoNerdly
Also, "you" IS formal (and plural) What we don't have anymore is the informal singular "thou" anymore. Also see: "y'all"
AVoiceOfReason
You all. It's a southern American contraction.
perfectbosom
In Ireland for you plural we use "ye" "youse" or "ye's", depending on where you're from. Generally "ye" is country, "youse" is city.
ThanatosElNyx
Maybe Dublin city, I haven't heard it in another city.
MinorityOpinion
"One" is formal, "you" is informal.
JoNerdly
Inanimate objects don't have gender? "Nice boat! She's a real beauty...."
WolfOdinson
USS (American) 'United States Ship'; HMS (British) 'Her Majesty's Ship; AMB (Italian) 'Atsa My Boat'
DrSparken
Personification != objects having gender. No-one would bat an eye at "It's a nice boat." Ignoring el/la in Spanish wouldn't be comparable
JoNerdly
The point is that we gender objects. The original post claims that we do not.
DrSparken
We sometimes personify objects, which can include viewing it with a gender that does not have to be in any way consistent across that 1/
DrSparken
type of object. Romance & German ALWAYS gender objects, regardless of personification, and all objects have a fixed, defined gender. 2/2
Chickenbuttholeremover
This dude HATES Arabic, it seems
[deleted]
[deleted]
aabil11
I found a lot of aspects of Arabic much easier to learn than English
[deleted]
[deleted]
aabil11
My native language is English
WoefulWombat
Seems he has a personal grudge. Dunno why. My ancestor's language is so pretty. With very good swear words.
o4kill
Good swear words are the most important parts of a language, it's the first thing you learn after "I would like 15 pastries, please"
SoDoneWithYourShite
You could say he is really blowing up in their face about it.
Ssssssssssss
As someone who tried to study Arabic, goddamn French was easier and I fucking hate French. Spanish best Second Language, amigo.
leroy666
Seems lotta the hate on languages isn't really about the language. Sp. and Fr, both romance languages, are v. similar.
zachtidmore
French is a garbage language. Chuck it, and just use Spanish or Italian.
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
Vas te faire encule toi aussi, toi noyer.
FragileReality
I studied German, than Spanish. My first few weeks were spent trying to shake the German ‘r’ in my Spanish.
FragileReality
Then** yipes
girfex
What a very Trumpish rant. ENGLISH CAN'T BE BAD BECAUSE OTHER LANGUAGES SOMETIMES DO STUPID STUFF TOO!
morrmaniac
I don't know how you interpreted the post, but it's literally just pointing out some of the stupid stuff other languages do. Calm down.
leroy666
I interpreted it to contain some pretty xenophobic elements, intentional or not. “My language is the best, I know it, you know it, .......”
morrmaniac
I does not explicitly say, nor even imply anything along that line of reasoning.
Mikanojo
i fully endorse "Trumpish" for inclusion in every language, meaning an ignorant, racist lie - which is what Trump will forever be known for.
girfex
We can ignore the fact that english is generally regarded as one of the most difficult languages to learn.
vorodar
[citation needed]
scratchimo1
People that think that are usually native english speakers. English is one of the easier languages to learn
Terminology
I speak 4 languages. English was by far the easiest to learn. That is BS coming from people who want to believe theirs is the most difficult
girfex
Ah, well your personal experience is clearly the measuring stick by how the linguists of the word decide things. Thanks for chiming in.
Terminology
I'm very interested in you showing me the high quality studies done by the "linguists of the world" proving that English is the hardest.
GuyPrice
Serious? It's easy as fuck. Learning every word twice in arabic? Shit, there are languages where you have to learn every word 14 times.
AppleTreesAndHoneyBees
No....
BayazTheBenevolent
What? Why would you even think that's true when almost everyone on the internet speaks English to some degree?
girfex
So to hell with those billion Chinese people using the internet in Chinese, eh?
ukarage
And what is the second langage of everyone using internet ? English or arabic ? :)
BayazTheBenevolent
Do you think we're all from UK/US/AUS?
Durango
Formal is also a thing in french ("tu" vs the more formal "vous") and in Australian english ("You" vs the more formal "Ya cunt")
BangBiscuitwithasideofBacon
same with spanish depending on culture. Spain significantly more formal than latin american versions of spanish
CuntsAreFun
This cunt, oi cunt, shit cunt, mad cunt, dumb cunt, nah yeh cunt, and yeh nah cunt.
NuiNiuhiNui
Username seems relevant.
CuntsAreFun
Fucknoath cunt. You're a good cunt ay.
NuiNiuhiNui
Fuking sparkling, mate.
CustardBattery
Dutch as well. A short one that the english might consider highly informal: "U".
CustardBattery
Opposed to the friendly informal "Jij"
OrderingTacos
And Russian also.
moonshadow23
well they were talking about proper english not slang
JHawke
Isn't the french tu/vous just "you" in polite and normal form? In japanese it is a biiiiit more complicated than that.
Durango
In french, "vous" is the polite version of "you" indeed, but it also change the way you have to write the linked verb. For instance:
Durango
"You see" would be "Tu vois" in the uninformal form, but "Vous voyez" in the more formal / more polite version. Interestingly, "vous" isalso
Durango
the plural form, meaning without any context, you can't really know if "vous voyez" refers to one person or more (same as in english, btw)
JHawke
Is that also the case with past tense. IE english you see you saw. 2 forms. French 4? or just the 2?
WolfOdinson
"... the more formal 'Ya cunt'" Lol!
FragileReality
Cutecicle
Or as in American, You vs the more formal Ya'll and for larger groups, AllY'all
bloodlustunicorn
But you is singular and y'all is plural. You =\= y'all.
Bishopcorva
I think it's more context specific. Pointing at one person and saying 'Y'all need to get lost." is more understood than "You, get lost."
bloodlustunicorn
We'd just drop the you or y'all and say, GTFO ; where G = git.
Bishopcorva
Sometimes though, it's not socially acceptable or conducive to keeping employment to go that route. But I like your style.
Cutecicle
...true
shiftingillusion
And even in English, one tends to use a different vocabulary when showing respect, such as in job interviews or when meeting parents.
NorwegianGlaswegian
True, but at least we don't have to alter all verb endings to a polite form, and be extra careful of honorific terms and prefixes as well.
shiftingillusion
The language itself doesn't change, but usage of it definitely does in situations which require it. It's about the relationship between
shiftingillusion
The speakers, not the language itself. Same as how Japanese works. They just tend to be more respectful than we do and speak accordingly.
dashers
What we need is a new language that takes the good things from the other languages.
[deleted]
[deleted]
BayazTheBenevolent
Y'all'd've whom'st'd've
GuyPrice
Lojban
doctorbees
That's English, my dude.
HermanManly
Korean
mattsall
You mean like English?
vorodar
It also takes the bad parts of other languages, like spelling. Also, it lacks a lot of consistency because it takes so much stuff.
SevenLeagueBoots
"English"
ShaTiK
Give it a few dozen years to oversimplify English and we will get it. It is already de-facto THE language of the world, so
BoredLyron
Unfortunately this won't happen because Esperanto failed, but has enough adherents that if someone tries to create a new one, they go 1/2
BoredLyron
2/2 "But we've already got Esperanto, we don't need another" and sometimes even try to actively block any "competing" created languages.
Taalen
Finnish. You're welcome
BayazTheBenevolent
Jääähüüüleböö börk börk. No thanks dude. Y'all can keep your forest nymph chant.
SomeoneTookMyUsernameToo
Perkele.
NorwegianGlaswegian
At least Finnish uses a phonetic writing system. Your case system and agglutination seems a bugger to learn though. Cool language though.
YouNeedtoChill
They tried this with Esperanto. It never took off.
JHawke
Didn't esperanto have strange things like gender specific words and such as well?
NivalisAngelus
Are you saying it was a miscarried languaged?
RaulwickLegendsinger
Technically it was an aborted language.
NivalisAngelus
Well they said it never took off so that gives me the impression of born but didn't survive rather than intentionally removed.
Slagonoth
Its goal was not to become a primary language but rather be a language that was easy to learn so other languages become easier to learn.
lawideas
That's because it was just an amalgam of western language concepts and kept stupid shit that didn't need to be in a language. (1)
lawideas
(2) For instance, there's no need for plural forms at all. Asian languages skip that entirely.
DrSparken
Plural forms definitely do have significant use and with a simple & consistent plural form it would definitely be preferable than having 1/
DrSparken
to specify things like "a group of " The rest, sure, but plurals are a silly thing to complain about. 2/2
lawideas
(4) I could go on, but basically Esperanto was done at a time when they just didn't look at all the cool features language has to offer.
AlkeneThiol
Also Esperanto sounds like a Martian speaking Italian with a Spanish accent.
lawideas
(3) There's no need for subject specific verb conjugations. Again, most Asian languages don't do that.
GuyPrice
Synthetic language can't "take off". Not a chance.
SmolTenk
At least we dont freak out over strange genders like,doors are female,trees are male so idk greg if you say you are female I guess thatsfine
BostonDFi
Did You just assume that door's gender!? #triggered
GregoriusDaneli
Thanks, pal. It's good to hear that kind of support once in a while. I needed that.
lonelylincolnshiresausage
Did you call an inanimate door 'Greg' ??
SmolTenk
no I called an animate door greg. Please pay attention.
RedHerrin
did he pick up the phone?
DickPicEnthusiast
Bois will be bois? Anyway, even things with no physical substance, like feelings, can be gendered. Happiness is female, Orgasm is male.
InnocentBystander37
actually we don't have seperate words for "sex (biological)" and "gender" in french, so gender identification is not as much a thing
HawaiianWithExtraPineapples
At least you can rest assured that people will understand you if you mess up. Except the French, they'll have a fit.
InnocentBystander37
what, why ?
iwillcutoutyourheartwithaspoon
I remember how mind-blown I was, learning that English was gender-neutral.To my native French ears a table couldn't be anything but male!
crumbl3r
And then there’s Swedish, where everything has either no gender or an unspecified gender...
ByeLittleSebastian
Omg, table is female in portuguese and I'm mind blown because for my portuguese trained ears they can't be male lol
Benhorn7
Table is female though, not male... --.-- you sure you French? (Pls respond in English so the majority of people understand your reply.)
iwillcutoutyourheartwithaspoon
My bad, I started one sentence in my head and another supplanted it in the end :p Indeed, for totally arbitrary reasons,table is female!
FreddThundersen
Table is masculine in Italian (IL tavolo), my French is rusty at best but I agree it should be feminine (LA table)
NotACop1515IsMyAgeNotACop
For you English speakers out there, lemme translate : the goddamn table
HernanKowalsky
una mesa- one table, female in spanish, 90% of words are determined if they ends in o (male) or a (female)
Equinox13
My mind was similarly blown when learning basic German and I found my table was male and the corner was female. It made me appreciate "the."
anyofmany
you should look up moon and sun in german...
Equinox13
Those kind of make sense having genders to me though, because many mythologies and religions represent them as a god and goddess.
anyofmany
I mentioned it because the genders are swapped- the sun is male in french the moon female- the other way round in german
Cambriane
And then you get into dative case and you’re wondering why the is different just because you’re talking about the table.
Nathanyel
Never attempt to learn Latin :)
mvck
In romance languages, the gender for sun and moon is usually m / f, except in German, where it’s the other way round. Love this fact!
mvck
Even English uses he for sun and she for moon!
whatsoeverhashtaghashtag
Well, thats not entirely true, the sun is actually female. "Die Sonne" - the Moon indeed is male. The article in front of the word is key
whatsoeverhashtaghashtag
"Die" is female, "Der" is Male and "Das" is neutral. IMHO it helps a lot
mvck
Huh? That’s what I said. German is different than the romance languages, but English goes their way despite its germanic roots
damethelog
In French, clitoris is male. Just sayin'
Sinus23
The same in Icelandic.
Fheuef
And penis is male but like half the variations (dick, cock, etc) are female.
EmoCow420xd
Same in Norwegian
doesntmatter
If Norw. Is anything like Swedish then I doubt it has gendered words. It's just called "gender" because our grammatical terms are based 1/
doesntmatter
off of the Latin rules and terms. But unlike ours, Latin languages' words literally are male or female words.
EmoCow420xd
Ah, I don't know French, so I thought gendered words was like, in this case, «en klitoris»=male
ChangingitLater
Is there etymology telling us why that would be?
damethelog
Ive asked my French teachers and no-one seems to have any idea. It all seems a bit random
siromon
Mädchen? It is diminutive, so "little maid", everything "little" ends with "chen" (fem) or "lein" (masculine) and becomes das (grammar neutr
ChicagoSunroof
So is vagina
EXNihiloNihilFit
in portuguese clitoris is male, but vaginas are female (this is such an awkward sentence)
Chionati
In german it's female and penis is male. So we got at least that right!
BigJewishHulk
Hey, don't say that out loud, they might hear you!
IamNotAshamed
in German, the word "girl" is neuter.
ender00000
Same in Slovenian.
ThisIsMyRecipeAccount
Because it's a"cuter" (diminutive) form of the original word, they end in -chen/lein and are always neuter, regardless the original gender.
siromon
thank you
aelfer
Maid -Mädchen. Putzig. Wieder was gelernt. Danke fein.
KansasComrade
But also, boats are female. No exceptions
crushingbore
Tell that to the Atha'an Miere.
HernanKowalsky
fun in spanish if yo say barca (small boat) it is female but barco ( normal size ship) it is male
photoshopbot01
Are medium size boats genderless or hermaphrodites?
Brix83
But, how do they reproduce?
Nathanyel
Champaign bottles.
InternetPeasantry
Brix83
This is the perfect answer.
Tuomir
*Laughs in Finnish*
marcofossil
Yes. My car is male?
unicorni3st
Well, if you want it to be. In Finnish it's just auto, no genders.
antleroid
will that fit in 140 characters?
ExTechOp
At least our language is logical and coherent, like Vulcan https://imgur.com/JoM4aLU
Lanka
Gender non-specific pronoun that doesn't sound silly as English speakers using "they".
Fluffycorn
"Yeah, and thats why german is the hardest language to .."
"WHY ARE YOU SO CLOSE?!"
Fleuraluna
jajajajaja
Lontri
hähähähähähähä
mygogglestheydonothing
Kääk!
vampirehedgehog
At least all our letters have a specific way to pronounce them which doesn't change.
DarkNinja2462
Well, at the end of a word, the -s for plurals changes pronunciation to a /z/ after a vowel or voiced consonant. ex. plurals vs. consonants
Pahaqrki
There's actually atleast one exception to this (that I'm aware of). The "ng" in words like "kuningas" or "langat" isn't really phonetic.
Lanka
I don't get it, they sound same to me.. Or the difference is small enough to disappear in dialect.
TheOnlyFinnWhoDoesNotLikeHockey
I have never really understood this. The "ng-äänne" sounds exactly like a g after an n should sound like to me.
potshot
But it isn't the "g" sound, which is the point.
Pahaqrki
With "ng" it's a soft, sorta slurred sound vs a hard one like it's usually pronounced. Think words like gaselli or gorilla for example.
dashers
Words change their meaning depending on inflection in English. But I agree, a lot of language features are crazy.
rainevasquez
Actually, idiots, the example you're all looking for is "to be content" and "to have content". Meaning changes on inflection
TheShadowsLengthen
Isn't that the case for most languages though ? Most of the ones I can think of do, at least...
UltimaN3rd
Really? Really.
HalloIamherenow
Lead and lead is a good example "I will lead people" vs "There's lead in my pencil"
codenametrixie
Dude has several meanings. You could say dude, dude, dude?, Dude, DUDE!! dude, dude, dude, dude, or dude!! Fuck is like that too.
BearGoesBruh
Ok. Lol.
generalsplayingrisk
stress, but not tone. where you emphasize is easier to sort than pitch IMO, but yeah it is subjective at that point.
Gdan79
Dude! Dude? Dude...
SgtKnux
Iagohides
The words are interperated differently, but the meaning remains the same
Dragondraikk
I present to you "The lion-eating poet in the stone den" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4
KEDAAAH
"Father I have sinned" and "Daddy I've been naughty" mean pretty much the same thing.
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
I'd like to point you to "The Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den". Literally only the sound "shi" makes up the whole poem.
gunnexx
In Dutch you write a word with D or DT depending on the tense and other circumstances. Its pronounced the same way regardless.
aldhafara
Do you have an example? I know Dutch but I can't find one.
gunnexx
When I said word, I shouldve said verb. 'Becoming' is 'Worden' in Dutch and I become is ik word, but he becomes is hij wordt. Confusing af
aldhafara
Oh OK. But that's the normal ending for the 3rd person, isn't it?
gunnexx
The problem is that depending on the tense and the person, this varies. The same person can have wordt and word depending on tense
thatabbyrose
We have shifts in tone and sarcasm. It’s not like saying “car” a half octave higher turns the word into “lamp”
MattoJanai
Actually not true. We have lots of words that do that. Console
dashers
Content. Wind. Lead.
StartOfOm
wtf
finninthejakesuit
This happens in Mandarin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-">ne_Den">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vExjnn_3ep4
ChocolateTeacosy
The comparison is to Cantonese, where changing the tone makes a completely different word. 'Gao' could be dog, 9, or dumpling, for instance.
Dreigiau
Allow me to introduce you to the word "Shi"
ChocolateTeacosy
That's Mandarin, which is actually less prone to this phenomenon than Cantonese is, having 4 tones to Cantonese's 6/7.
JeffGoldbum
And word order. And punctuation.
TheShadowsLengthen
...again, same for most other languages...
Ssssssssssss
That, uh...that's how a lot of languages work. Like Spanish. And French. And almost all of them.
BlueberryQuickjet
OP post points to Cantonese in which the tone or “inflection” changes the word %100. The exact same word could mean up to 6 different things
BlueberryQuickjet
For example: mā spoken in a flat even tone means mother. While mà spoken in a harsher downwards tone means to scold.
JoNerdly
The fact that we do it to a lesser extent doesn't mean that we don't do it at all, as OP claims.
TriskaidekaFeelYa
Dude. "Two meanings based on inflection" is not talking about sarcasm. Bless your heart.
HaniiPuppy
"He knew she loved him" - say that sentence out loud, but each time, emphasise a different word.
lovemesumfemdom
Basically every language does this. I'm sure you understand that was not what the post talked about
Rajinrune
That's the meaning of the sentence not the word itself.
HaniiPuppy
The meaning of the word within the sentence is changed. e.g. "He" (pronoun) vs "He" (pronoun, explicitly excluding others)
LucianKane
Yup, and 'him' (inclusive pronoun) and 'him' (exclusive pronoun) is changed based on tonal modulation.
Sirrussel5
"I never said she stole my money." I like this one.
WellIsThisTaken
I don't think any of those words change their definition due to inflection.
thatabbyrose
The sentence changes tone. Each individual word maintains its definition
JoNerdly
Why not?
MattoJanai
Console
allhailpotatoes
Yea but intonation matters. ''they were too close to the door to close it' (that's called heteronym)
AntaNce
Record that record!
Cicerowasright
Intonation exists in every language, and english intonation is one of the easier ways to do it.
allhailpotatoes
I didn't say that, but that is exactly what makes languages hard. english intonation is hell for me. of course this is subjective, but 1/2
allhailpotatoes
because of my mothertongue, i really have to pay attention how stuff comes out of my mouth when speaking english 1/2
allhailpotatoes
for example in some languages the intonation is critical for the meaning of the sentence. in finnish you can accidentally say liver 1/2
VidiVeniThenSheLeft
Rulers rule.
allhailpotatoes
And as a English student (English is not my mothertongue) I can say that English is first easy, but more you study, the harder it gets
dwilson0725
As an* English student. I got you fam. lol
allhailpotatoes
i shit, can you believe me, i'm in university and still make those mistakes ::D thanks for pointing out!
allhailpotatoes
For example, English has a unique way to use time tenses, because they are quite specific (eg. think of the past tenses)
dokpsy
Yea, English looks easy until you delve into it and realize how batshit insane it can be. Like picking up a floozy at a bar.
dokpsy
At first your getting pretty into it then three months have passed and she's trying to carve your spleen out with a ladle
allhailpotatoes
and unlike German (still not my mothertongue) you learn first A LOT of stuff (der die das and akkusative, dative, etc shit) but after 1/2
Stefanfr1997
At least you actually pronounce half the letters in a word. DANISH.
GnomeDeGuerre
After 1.000 years it gets redundant to pronounce the entire word.
ZOMGNO
Welsh. lol.
Pahaqrki
"queue" is just one letter followed by four silent ones...
kiwiswede
Having spent the last month with my wife's family in Denmark - this is so true!
YoungToast
Tibetan is a nightmare
Sheepyhead
I'm absolutely certain that Danish actually erodes your vocal cords since there is literally no edge or stress in any of the vocalizations
ThisIsSittingOnASeal
Working in a call center. I can say with absolute certainty that Danes communicate with sign language and eyebrow wiggling more than words.
LP1988
We just made sure it's possible to pronounce when you are drunk since that seems to be our preferred time for any discussion.
Ssssssssssss
Isn't that a lot of the languages from that area of the world? Like they'll have ten letters in a word but five of them just tell you how-
Ssssssssssss
to pronounce the first syllable and the other five just tell you how to pronounce the second?
Nebulanaut
Røget ørred ftw
Stefanfr1997
Yeah, but Danish is particularly guilty of this (I say this AS A DANE), case in point: https://i.redd.it/4pybdxldx1yy.jpg
LP1988
Æ stjæl li' den dær, vis det fin.
80percentlegs
“Ooohhhhh kamelåså”
Keru
Sygelekugle
80percentlegs
sogget
You just ordered 2000 liters of milk.
80percentlegs
tablecat
Eh, maybe if you live in Jylland.
PreachItSigard
You pronounce them and conveniently every vowel can just be pronounced as Æ! Super simple stuff.
Stefanfr1997
I do
tablecat
Well, that explains it. What you guys speak shouldn't even be considered Danish.
LP1988
https://imgur.com/CYFkrFU
tablecat
Hvad siger du? Jeg forstår kun Kaj-memes
GormlessLiar
:))))
NickyNoodlez
Words change meaning depending on tone in english. Well at least in Australia they do. Mate is either a friend an enemy or a stranger
Dirrtydetroit
Jew is the one word that changes drastically with tone deflection lmao. Put some stank on it and it's a insult.
shiftingillusion
Also, words like contract(n) vs contract(v). Words definitely change meaning based on tone/inflection in English.
Mirawatts
That's not about English, that's about dialect.
vikingvampireangel
Yeah, I always thought mate was the formal version of cunt.
darthbiscuit
Mate is also a verb. A nice verb.
railgap
Tone of voice matters a LOT in English, but is not systematized, it's all cultural. "oh you beeotch!" in a drag voice vs. "oh. you. bitch."
AmArschdieRaeuber
At least it doesn't change from "guessing" to "doom" like in chinese or equal shit
BobofMemes
That’s where you’re wrong friendo
NotGoneYet
Cunt.
iConfirmAnythingAndEverything
True in canada cept its bro, "bro" and bro!!
TheyCallMeMrPigeonCuzImJustSoCoo
"I never said he stole my money" has 7 different meanings based on the word emphasized.
jezzacorbyn
But it's a very informal word anyway so the tone is going to be informal no matter what
BayazTheBenevolent
Oh? So there are formal words? I thought the English language doesn't change based on how much you respect somebody?
Fleuraluna
English, American and Australian ..and Canadian, which is really interesting in Quebec of course.
fitlex
Now listen here, mate...
NotOfImport
That's called pragmatic intonation. Every language has it.
somenerandom
That's not an English thing, that's adding connotation to a word via tone of voice. That's how any language can be used. Not the same as >
somenerandom
one word meaning either mother or horse depending on how you pronounce it.
NotTheRealMeNow
Bass/bass, close/close, bow/bow, lead/lead, sewer/sewer. These are called heteronyms. Same spelling, different pronunciation
pandalivesmatter
true. these are perfect examples. maybe it's rarer in English, though?
ElBirdoinSoko
But that's not a case of changing tone. All of those sound differences result from different phonemes. Close is s sound, close is z sound.
crumbl3r
But it’s still the same word, you just use it in multiple ways. In some languages, different words can only be told apart based on tone.
NickyNoodlez
I understand what you mean. However i still think being able to tell whether its an insult or compliment based on tone is a biggie
illegalacorn
that's what tone is *for*
NickyNoodlez
Not for all words. Some insults are just insults
illegalacorn
"fuck" can mean like 19 different things dependent on tone and context. But it never translates into something else entirely.
AceBandito
So you're saying that the same word changes meaning based on tone?
railgap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den
crumbl3r
Two completely different words can have the same spelling and pronunciation, with just the tone (accent) differentiating them.
AceBandito
It's argued that accents are connected to pronunciation, not tone. Tone is lexically connected to mood usually. So if we're not talking 1
crumbl3r
Maybe I was using the wrong terminology, to me accent is different from pronunciation, and has more to do with the melody of the language.
AceBandito
heteronyms like bass and bass, so aside from context, what would be the audible difference in something like Eastern languages have?
Islandace
Yup
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
"The Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den" is literally one sound, "shi", pronounced differently. It's a whole damn poem.
AceBandito
But we have words in English that change meaning based on pronunciation, that's my point. As for tone and context, so is "Buffalo buffalo."
SpeakerForTheUnLiving
In English it happens a few times, in Chinese it's basically every single word, is all I'm saying.
shesawitch
Yes. Check out some basic Vietnamese language YouTube videos. Tone is so important!
Fulminology
In Chinese, "shi" with an ascending tone is the number ten, but with a descending tone is the word "yes".
kalari38
I mean “tones” are effectively different vowels, ya? Ppl make fun of L/R mixups but when a language has MORE sounds that’s somehow its fault
Allrighty
They're saying it's not the same word when the intonation is different.
AceBandito
Which is something that exists in English
Allrighty
Not like it does in Cantonese.
Evenmorehorrifying
That's true of most English words, cunt.
Cicerowasright
That's true in any language.
Evenmorehorrifying
Take your up vote, cunt!
NickyNoodlez
Mate... i dont even know you..
IAmNotASkeleton
Don't call someone "mate" if you don't even know 'em, buddy.
idontcaremuchforusernames
Hey don’t call him buddy, chief!
shartsicle
He's not your chief, homeslice!
BloodyCrowOfCainhurst
Sys the guy who seems to be hiding a few skeletons in his closet....or
joc101
Or...his body
KhaoticDreamer
Hah, this mate gets it. I like you, cunt!
Nalianna
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebKRoIO_2hU