... Weird question 🙋 Do other people's sheep not wait at the gate, at sundown?
(I grew up on a farm and our sheep and cows would almost always be waiting, at the gate, to be let back into their stalls - and to be given their herbivore kibbles)
Is it true BCs get anxious is they do not have a job-something to do? Not for me. I’d need the lazy dog breed to match my style. What a lazy dog breed? The Anti-Border Collie ??
I love how some people think this is animal abuse and I'm like "look Karen, that dog would HAPPILY do that all day every day if we let him. We have to RESTRAIN him with training and obedience so he doesn't stress out the sheep lmao"
If this was big tech, it would cost you multi billions and take years, and end up running people over - and I say this as someone in the trade. And here instead we have Dog. Dog Good. Sometimes all you need is Dog.
I used to wonder how they train dogs to do this. Then dad got a border collie, and it turns out they just naturally do that. Human-guided evolution is crazy.
My college roommate had a boxer-collie and she absolutely hated it when we hung out in different rooms lol. I loved that dog so much, her name was Cali. RIP angel ❤️.
lol it is wild, my friend has a beautiful collie, I tell everyone she is way smarter than me. Don't throw a ball near her, she will herd and protect ball until she has to sleep. It is her only herdable.
I’ve got an Aussie and when she was a pup, we were playing in a park near some ducks and I could see the moment the herding gene kicked in. It was like everything was normal puppy play then she downloaded the code from the Matrix and NEEDED to herd the ducks. Once they were in an appropriate blob everything was cool again
My best friend is a shepherd, when outwith the summer months he is with the sheep up the mountains, he takes his dogs to little refresher sessions that he does with his other shepherd colleagues a few times a year. There may be instinct but you need to keep it sharp
We had a border collie, she lacked the herding gene. I am pretty sure she was actually a cat wearing a dog suit. We expected the same when we got an aussie sheppard, nope he herded my son around the back yard like he was born to it. Miss both those dogs.
Hoo boy. I used to work doggy daycare, and people were always bringing in active breeds to wear them out during the day. But border collies are something else. All of the underworked border collies just hired themselves to be my assistants. They would proudly herd the other dogs and could never understand why I kept telling them to cut it out. They just need a job.
They actually get tested at young puppy age if the herding gene kicks in when they see sheep (or sth similar). If it does, most of the training needed is to connect certain behaviour to specific commands and teaching them in what direction to herd and such stuff.
I saw that once. Guy took a litter out to a field and the ones that showed no interest, he would sell as pets (to very well-vetted houses). The others became working dogs.
We live near a park with one farmer living next to it. He leads the sheep there from time to time to free range. once our dog (with zero training) instinctively herded all those 20 or so sheep to the nearest gate. But the farmer has his own dogs, including Great Pyrenees for guarding. That dog went apeshit seeing his sheep being "harassed" by a different dog. He was behind a fence, but he was so mad and full of rage that I was sure he is going to rip the fence down and kill my dog.
You're kinda lucky he didn't, Great Pyrenees don't fuck around. My cattle ranching grandad had one that refused to ever leave his herd or go indoors. He was a mean SOB that was on the clock 24/7 doing his job. His favorite pasttime was murdering coyotes for sport and chewing on their bones.
"Naturally" Yeah no its not natural... it IS ingrained into their DNA so hard that this literally gives them endorphins... we bred addicts. Like I get how the dog is the cheapest and most practical way to herd... but did we have to utterly break a whole subspecies of dog too? Unless you are REALLY active and have lots of room its next to impossible to responsibly take care of a Border Collie as a pet cause of all this.
As opposed to...wolves? The only canines NOT borne of human-guided evolution? How about maybe consider that we took something nature optimized for predation and territorial tribalism, and developed from that a nonviolent symbiotic relationship.
As for what constitutes "natural," either humans are included or the word has no coherent meaning. Regardless, it's a shitty basis for values.
If you cannot provide the appropriate environment for a highly active animal, maybe don't own one.
And when I run outside, my brain releases endorphins that make me happier too. That's just basic biology across the entire mammal kingdom. "Addiction" my ass. What absolute ragelord garbage.
What the hell kinda false dichotomy? I am not advocating against all human guided evolution but using it to breed dogs to the point that their brains are completely rewired like some kind of sick, extreme version of Pavlov. Natural has a meaning. And what those dogs have been bred to be is FAR from it. This is not just a highly active dog, its a dog who is genetically brainwashed to NEED that activity to feel good.
False dichotomy? Then explain the distinction. Explain how we genetically engineered these purpose-built superdogs like the brilliant masterminds we are but poodles are just how wolf domestication do.
Since prehistory we were simply part of the canine environment, and one that had the sense to reward behavior that benefitted us. The rest is pure behavioral biology guided by natural selection. What possible distinction can you even offer beyond "we got good at it?"
Poodles are not biologically addicted to one particular behavior are they? And sure we can make excuses for past generations all day with theories about how this happened. But it went to far. And we have ALL the knowledge of how this works and still breed them this way. Continuing to reinforce the behavior even though we know that its objectively horrifying. Any purebred dog is bad but this shit is worse.
We took a dog (Old Hemp, 1893-1901) who was really smart, active, and good at herding, and said "let's have more of that." And then we kept going. Hemp's line used humans to propagate itself every bit as much as we used them to herd sheep. And they like it. What a fucking crime.
And poodles? Well, we value cute too. Zero difference.
"We value cute" We bred poodles as hunting dogs dude. And you are oversimplifying what happened to reduce how bad it looks. Arguing in bad faith. Lying about what happened, and is still happening, to dogs.
No we really fucking didn't. We could have just bred dogs who are good learners so they can be trained many ways. What we did was breed a dog that has this one job programmed into its head by default.
Do you think there was some mad scientist that spliced dog DNA to make border collies? It was a bunch of Shepherds who saw some dogs helped their family survive and gave them extra food in thanks. Repeat for a thousand generations and you get dogs that love being shepherds, that's what evolution spit out. They're no more a monster than modern sheep are who we're bred for more wool because that's what was useful
No I don't. I made it clear what I thought. That is an exaggeration to make me seem unreasonable. And that is how it STARTED not how it went. Then they were selectively bred to be better herders to the point that its basically their reason for existing. BCs who do not respond that way are not bred to this day. Evolution spit out a lot of different herding breeds. Almost none of them have the obsession with herding that Border Collies do. The sheep aren't bred to love being sheared. Also sheep1/2
Working breeds want to work, they feel good when they have a purpose, just like humans do. Many of us get enjoyment out of a job well done. Border Collie is a very intelligent breed that needs something to keep their minds busy and get their energy out and don't want to sit around all day doing nothing. Not every breed of dog is for only petting, people should do their research on the nature of different breeds of dogs before they get one.
You are right working breeds want to do stuff (not necessarily work) and feel good when they do something good. That is not what happens to Border Collies. They have a compulsive desire to herd combined with energy to do it for hours and hours. Its not about having just an active dog. There are other herding breeds nowhere near as brokenly addicted to the behavior as BCs. Heelers, Malinois, Great Pyrenees, and countless shepherd and sheepdog breeds who can do the job without the neuroses.
You can downvote but "Human guided evolution" to make dogs who literally get endorphins just from herding sheep is breeding behavioral addicts for our benefit.
Yeah have a laugh while these animals who we "love so much" are further inbred to continue this stupid quest to make The Most Obsessive Dog. Real fucking knee slapper that we force canines to cousin fuck to collect ever more obsessive dogs to put to work.
By that logic I shouldn't play fetch with my dog no matter how much she enjoys it because her ancestors are wolves and wolves don't play fetch. We transformed wolves from natural killers to our companions. Is it so bad to let them help us in exchange for food, safety and a warm place by our fire? Maybe I should make my dog sleep outside because that's more "natural" instead of next to me in my bed. Oh. She chose the bed. Bad dog. Doesn't she know she's wrong?
No its not. That is a strawman you pulled out of your ass. This about breeding neurologically broken dogs not regular interaction. Not sharing living space. But specifically about breeding practices that create dogs with problems. Its amazing how many people play ignorant even though they know so many other purebred dogs have issues its just impossible to accept that we made a breed with a mental issue not just a physical one.
Even if you're right, of all the problems there are in the world right now, dogs being happy because we made them that way is pretty far down the list of crimes humanity has committed, and that's why nobody is taking you seriously.
And its immoral and unnecessary to literally inbreed something until its brain is basically broken around "The Task" on a genetic level. There is nothing wrong with training dogs and breeding them to be smart and healthy. That is not what Border Collies or indeed many purebreds are. They are genetic nightmares we made. So many health problems physically and mentally.
bekindtoanimals
The bestest girl ❤️
eggman989
"Sean the Sheep Man" on YT and TT if any body's interested.
q2grapple
Very good girl
upsidedownyhead
Border collies are the absolute best dogs
BonafideHomicide
She forgot to close the gate...
pullingsixty
#1 The BC is a lot like a 1st AD on a film set. Most were like the Collie, some were like Babe.
ChloeRed
And sheep herding trails used to have their own show on national TV here (UK), it's now combined into another programme.
MaxMschief
... Weird question 🙋
Do other people's sheep not wait at the gate, at sundown?
(I grew up on a farm and our sheep and cows would almost always be waiting, at the gate, to be let back into their stalls - and to be given their herbivore kibbles)
Harmonylovesmusic
Merky600
Is it true BCs get anxious is they do not have a job-something to do? Not for me. I’d need the lazy dog breed to match my style. What a lazy dog breed? The Anti-Border Collie ??
Eldibs
No matter how much you love your job, you will never love your job as much as a dog with a job loves theirs.
atomicleela
That’s a good ass dog
smashole
I've seen a pig do this. La la la
dirtybad
The pitter patter paws in the mud as she runs off and the happy smile when she comes back get me every time this is reposted.
DarkSock
Well, now there's a good boi.
westvillehigh
look at all those chickens.
Quizz25S
I love how some people think this is animal abuse and I'm like "look Karen, that dog would HAPPILY do that all day every day if we let him. We have to RESTRAIN him with training and obedience so he doesn't stress out the sheep lmao"
DaisyfromDownunder
That looks like a 4 WD ATV without a roll bar - also called a death trap.
Spuddywuddy
Repost of the year would be a better title.
LawFiveGuy
I like how they all slowed down as they got to the narrow opening. Humans would have sped up to be first, causing a great deal of carnage
talldean
You have never seen humans drive a car through a tunnel? Humans aren’t uh consistent.
bekindtoanimals
Tru dat
SentencesThatStartWithBitch
the "black friday effect" xD
languex
They've done it before. It's rote memory.
cwblackandyellow
That girl is happier at work than I am at play.
LeftRightThere
I wonder if the dog sleeps inside
obzervr
Border collies are so fucking READY!
BrigidtheMechLady
One of these days, I'm going to take a border Collie to a kids park and have it round up all the kids. Just for giggles.
lurker1989
That’ll do pig - that’ll do.
SubnetTwelve
Give that good boy a threat !
GoodGuyGonzo
Good girl
faro2000
Give the talented canine a treat, too! ^^
(I'm still trying to decide whether an after-work bath would count as a "threat" or not. Prolly not... : )
Isthe4thtimethecharm
It just depends on the dog.
ElectricSlideOrchestra
My BC HATED baths so this would absolutely be a threat lol
ElectricSlideOrchestra
Uh, ok. [me to dog] No kibble if you don't keep being a good boy!
Isthe4thtimethecharm
For a border collie, the work is the treat. These are the only dogs I have met with OCD. But definitely deserves more treats later.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Yeah... we did that to them. We bred them for it. It honestly feels like something we as humans should be ashamed of.
TheNihilistsParadoxicalWashingMachine
If this was big tech, it would cost you multi billions and take years, and end up running people over - and I say this as someone in the trade. And here instead we have Dog. Dog Good. Sometimes all you need is Dog.
JustAnotherPOG
Whereas the domestication and selective breeding of wolves only took a few weeks, right?
bluto1415
Farmers say they work hard, but all I ever see these sheep farmers do is warm ass on a quad while the dog does all the work.
bekindtoanimals
HAHAHA!!!!
blaid0
Once the dog's got them together, he's done. Now, if we could train a chimp, say, to shear, neuter, dip, birth, all that stuff, then we'd be smiling.
youcanreachmenow
AI will take care of all that. No need for the chimp
youcanreachmenow
For all those people who thought I was serious, honestly think I didnt need the /s for that comment...
fishbicyclerepairman
holy fuck have you looked around lately? 😀
blaid0
Pff, I'd prefer the chimp, thanks.
teknojo
I mean, a train chimp and or an AI, both can malfunction and rip everybody in the room in half.
blaid0
Yeah, but at least the chimp will eat the sheep. Nature, beautiful and brutal, all that.
IdiotSavantTinker
I used to wonder how they train dogs to do this. Then dad got a border collie, and it turns out they just naturally do that. Human-guided evolution is crazy.
beastthatshines
My college roommate had a boxer-collie and she absolutely hated it when we hung out in different rooms lol. I loved that dog so much, her name was Cali. RIP angel ❤️.
Nnoodles
My old border collie was the best babysitter. Loved herding kids. Would not let one of them get too far from the herd. :)
kwent86
lol it is wild, my friend has a beautiful collie, I tell everyone she is way smarter than me. Don't throw a ball near her, she will herd and protect ball until she has to sleep. It is her only herdable.
thenetbear
I’ve got an Aussie and when she was a pup, we were playing in a park near some ducks and I could see the moment the herding gene kicked in. It was like everything was normal puppy play then she downloaded the code from the Matrix and NEEDED to herd the ducks. Once they were in an appropriate blob everything was cool again
Spoonland
like this?
RooGryphon
they also show the behavior with humans, especially children
Ragolin
My best friend is a shepherd, when outwith the summer months he is with the sheep up the mountains, he takes his dogs to little refresher sessions that he does with his other shepherd colleagues a few times a year. There may be instinct but you need to keep it sharp
IrisSelamin
We had a border collie, she lacked the herding gene. I am pretty sure she was actually a cat wearing a dog suit. We expected the same when we got an aussie sheppard, nope he herded my son around the back yard like he was born to it. Miss both those dogs.
WhoHim
Read this like your son was meant to be herded
BigKangDangaLangSlanga
Hoo boy. I used to work doggy daycare, and people were always bringing in active breeds to wear them out during the day. But border collies are something else. All of the underworked border collies just hired themselves to be my assistants. They would proudly herd the other dogs and could never understand why I kept telling them to cut it out. They just need a job.
Grillparzer
Read about a family who had to keep their border collie inside when the kids played because it kept trying to herd them into a circle.
MikeRInternetTraveler
We had a collie when I was a kid, got her as a puppy. She had never seen a sheep in her life.
But she would gently herd children at birthday parties, our neighbor’s ducks, and other dogs. It’s pure instinct for most of them.
alphanius
They actually get tested at young puppy age if the herding gene kicks in when they see sheep (or sth similar). If it does, most of the training needed is to connect certain behaviour to specific commands and teaching them in what direction to herd and such stuff.
ThePunishersVengefulBrother
I saw that once. Guy took a litter out to a field and the ones that showed no interest, he would sell as pets (to very well-vetted houses). The others became working dogs.
PhilipRaven
We live near a park with one farmer living next to it. He leads the sheep there from time to time to free range. once our dog (with zero training) instinctively herded all those 20 or so sheep to the nearest gate. But the farmer has his own dogs, including Great Pyrenees for guarding. That dog went apeshit seeing his sheep being "harassed" by a different dog. He was behind a fence, but he was so mad and full of rage that I was sure he is going to rip the fence down and kill my dog.
valkrez
"That is MY job!"
xRHIN0x
You're kinda lucky he didn't, Great Pyrenees don't fuck around. My cattle ranching grandad had one that refused to ever leave his herd or go indoors. He was a mean SOB that was on the clock 24/7 doing his job. His favorite pasttime was murdering coyotes for sport and chewing on their bones.
RelevantCommentBot
Well it's nice he found a hobby
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
"Naturally" Yeah no its not natural... it IS ingrained into their DNA so hard that this literally gives them endorphins... we bred addicts. Like I get how the dog is the cheapest and most practical way to herd... but did we have to utterly break a whole subspecies of dog too? Unless you are REALLY active and have lots of room its next to impossible to responsibly take care of a Border Collie as a pet cause of all this.
HonoredMule
As opposed to...wolves? The only canines NOT borne of human-guided evolution? How about maybe consider that we took something nature optimized for predation and territorial tribalism, and developed from that a nonviolent symbiotic relationship.
As for what constitutes "natural," either humans are included or the word has no coherent meaning. Regardless, it's a shitty basis for values.
If you cannot provide the appropriate environment for a highly active animal, maybe don't own one.
HonoredMule
And when I run outside, my brain releases endorphins that make me happier too. That's just basic biology across the entire mammal kingdom. "Addiction" my ass. What absolute ragelord garbage.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
What the hell kinda false dichotomy? I am not advocating against all human guided evolution but using it to breed dogs to the point that their brains are completely rewired like some kind of sick, extreme version of Pavlov. Natural has a meaning. And what those dogs have been bred to be is FAR from it. This is not just a highly active dog, its a dog who is genetically brainwashed to NEED that activity to feel good.
HonoredMule
False dichotomy? Then explain the distinction. Explain how we genetically engineered these purpose-built superdogs like the brilliant masterminds we are but poodles are just how wolf domestication do.
Since prehistory we were simply part of the canine environment, and one that had the sense to reward behavior that benefitted us. The rest is pure behavioral biology guided by natural selection. What possible distinction can you even offer beyond "we got good at it?"
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Poodles are not biologically addicted to one particular behavior are they? And sure we can make excuses for past generations all day with theories about how this happened. But it went to far. And we have ALL the knowledge of how this works and still breed them this way. Continuing to reinforce the behavior even though we know that its objectively horrifying. Any purebred dog is bad but this shit is worse.
HonoredMule
We took a dog (Old Hemp, 1893-1901) who was really smart, active, and good at herding, and said "let's have more of that." And then we kept going. Hemp's line used humans to propagate itself every bit as much as we used them to herd sheep. And they like it. What a fucking crime.
And poodles? Well, we value cute too. Zero difference.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
"We value cute" We bred poodles as hunting dogs dude. And you are oversimplifying what happened to reduce how bad it looks. Arguing in bad faith. Lying about what happened, and is still happening, to dogs.
polaroidkidd
Yes. We did have to do that.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
No we really fucking didn't. We could have just bred dogs who are good learners so they can be trained many ways. What we did was breed a dog that has this one job programmed into its head by default.
arikelrecords2000
Do you think there was some mad scientist that spliced dog DNA to make border collies? It was a bunch of Shepherds who saw some dogs helped their family survive and gave them extra food in thanks. Repeat for a thousand generations and you get dogs that love being shepherds, that's what evolution spit out. They're no more a monster than modern sheep are who we're bred for more wool because that's what was useful
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
No I don't. I made it clear what I thought. That is an exaggeration to make me seem unreasonable. And that is how it STARTED not how it went. Then they were selectively bred to be better herders to the point that its basically their reason for existing. BCs who do not respond that way are not bred to this day. Evolution spit out a lot of different herding breeds. Almost none of them have the obsession with herding that Border Collies do. The sheep aren't bred to love being sheared. Also sheep1/2
mcstreetz
Working breeds want to work, they feel good when they have a purpose, just like humans do. Many of us get enjoyment out of a job well done. Border Collie is a very intelligent breed that needs something to keep their minds busy and get their energy out and don't want to sit around all day doing nothing. Not every breed of dog is for only petting, people should do their research on the nature of different breeds of dogs before they get one.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
You are right working breeds want to do stuff (not necessarily work) and feel good when they do something good. That is not what happens to Border Collies. They have a compulsive desire to herd combined with energy to do it for hours and hours. Its not about having just an active dog. There are other herding breeds nowhere near as brokenly addicted to the behavior as BCs. Heelers, Malinois, Great Pyrenees, and countless shepherd and sheepdog breeds who can do the job without the neuroses.
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
You can downvote but "Human guided evolution" to make dogs who literally get endorphins just from herding sheep is breeding behavioral addicts for our benefit.
Larnoc
This is very very far down our list of crimes against the natural world though
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
IMO Its not at the top but its also not very far down. Its probably in the top 10-20% for me. Like we could stop at any time now too.
AlwaysDownvoteDots
lmao
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
Yeah have a laugh while these animals who we "love so much" are further inbred to continue this stupid quest to make The Most Obsessive Dog. Real fucking knee slapper that we force canines to cousin fuck to collect ever more obsessive dogs to put to work.
AlwaysDownvoteDots
lmao if you think herders are inbred
Quizz25S
By that logic I shouldn't play fetch with my dog no matter how much she enjoys it because her ancestors are wolves and wolves don't play fetch. We transformed wolves from natural killers to our companions. Is it so bad to let them help us in exchange for food, safety and a warm place by our fire? Maybe I should make my dog sleep outside because that's more "natural" instead of next to me in my bed. Oh. She chose the bed. Bad dog. Doesn't she know she's wrong?
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
No its not. That is a strawman you pulled out of your ass. This about breeding neurologically broken dogs not regular interaction. Not sharing living space. But specifically about breeding practices that create dogs with problems. Its amazing how many people play ignorant even though they know so many other purebred dogs have issues its just impossible to accept that we made a breed with a mental issue not just a physical one.
Quizz25S
Even if you're right, of all the problems there are in the world right now, dogs being happy because we made them that way is pretty far down the list of crimes humanity has committed, and that's why nobody is taking you seriously.
dreammer243
And?
IMakeLotsOfReferencesAndRemakes
And its immoral and unnecessary to literally inbreed something until its brain is basically broken around "The Task" on a genetic level. There is nothing wrong with training dogs and breeding them to be smart and healthy. That is not what Border Collies or indeed many purebreds are. They are genetic nightmares we made. So many health problems physically and mentally.