userfriendly19777
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He's not even American. We live here in relaxed Denmark. He's part of the rather obscure 7th day adventist church. A very small minority. Even 'ordinary' Christians are rather invisible here.
We even have a state religion; The Evangelical Lutheran Church. All the priest are actually employed by the state, but it's without teeth. If priests use the church lectern to rave about homosexuals or to vote for a specific party they will be fired in a few days.
We are probably even less religious than our German and Swedish neighbors. So I have never felt threatened by any religious nutjobs in a broader context. They can threaten you on an individual basis, but they really can't do anything about rules and regulation. Yes there are fanatic muslims, but like the christians they don't really have any traction in the political life.
So I have always regarded my brother and his religious tendencies as a rarety. Like watching a dangerous animal safely behind bars. But now when Trump has suggested removing the guardrails that separates church from state, he is ecstatic.
Will this creep into Europe? Will Ireland reintroduce legislation against abortion. Will the German Christian parties like CDU become less 'mainstream' and demand more christianity. Will my brother become more obnoxious? He is actually rather mild mannered tbf, but watch out for those!
Yes, I'm a little worried. MAGA and the Christofacist are cancer. And cancer spreads.
ourari
There's a small group of influential people in Dutch politics and civil society who belong to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Quite a few of them are Putin apologists :(
DrankTooMuchMead
I wish I could have been born in Denmark.
RealEpoona
In Case of Germany: absolutely yes, they will try. The current Party Leaders are huge Fans of Trumps "style".
In general the US is 5 to 10 yrs ahead of Europe in cultural, technicial and politic developement.
ToolPackinMama
All religious sects will suffer when religion is no longer protected. History is full of bloody tales of Xian on Xian violence. All Xians who are not in the state sanctioned church will be heretics and will suffer.
Bathion
You should be worried and you need to confront your brother now while you still can. America took the "Don't cause a scene at Christmas." Approach to this and look at where it got us.
thesmelge
Let him smell blood. Break his nose.
ourari
Worried as well. Conservative Christians are gaining some ground in the Netherlands. They're definitely trying to change the laws about abortion (unsuccessfully). Since the 1960s, every generation was less religious than the one before. Until now. Gen Z is getting back in the pews...
androgenoide
If the U.S. government favors a religion it will probably not be his.
localsurfer
One way to absolutely kill religious belief is to teach in school. Every school kid in the UK used to say the lord's prayer at assembly, and I know noone remotely religious now.
fractalsphere
longtermlerker4eva
Americas is just always more. More food. More bigger cars. More of everything, including their stupid. Their stupid is world class, most of our stupids don’t even come close so I’m not that worried about Europe. I just hope he doesn’t destroy the environment irreversibly before he dies / gets beheaded
Apothecarius
7th day adventist is a cult, I know, I went to one of their schools for 3 years. They do teach typing though, which has been straight up advantageous in my life.
AnbaricDragon
Born and raised with them. Mom divorced dad before I got TOO deep into the dogma, like 11-12 yo
marthafarquar
We have a few 7th day adventists, you can always spot them as the women are all forced to wear long dresses and long sleeves even in the middle of summer.
Seethreepeeoh
Ireland would need a constitutional vote to reinstate the 8th ammendment. Not impossible, but highly unlikely in the short term.
FallingStar7669
It crept into Europe a long time ago. Fight like hell NOW while it's still possible to uproot. Save yourself, save your country.
pr3viso
Unlike Europe, religious war in America isn't a strong experience. I doubt Europe will be keen to go through that again.
PicassoCT
No, not likely. You see, this religous things spreads more easily, when there is no social system, no safety web, because then that contract enforcing cult, is the meaning of life and death for those dependent n the contracts for continued existence. This is why the us are so hyper religous- and almost everywhere in europe, where there is a social safety system, it just does not take root so easily.
alloutofmondays
Your brother isn’t mild mannered if he’s a 7th day Adventist. They’re one of the worst branches of Christianity as far as how fundamentalist they get.
They’re just keep it private until they think they don’t need to anymore.
wannasee
Be worried. Vote against nationalism and protect Ukraine. Do let this creep back in the Europe
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1azRiOGJtZGN4ZGJzdGppdHkwZXdsNTQ5d3N3YW9lZHZobGkza2xqYyZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/Zrq2FgRy6w1eU/200w.webp
AllRepublicansArePedophiles
I was raised in that same sect of protestantism and have been deconstructing from it for decades. I hope your brother can find the healing he needs in time.
ThomasTheWankEnglne
organized religion has and always will be a bane on humanity and its progression. we lost centuries of advancement and intelligence due to religion, its always weaponized, and usually for the worst.
Osiricus
No people have ever benefitted from a theocracy.
Clockworkdancerobot
Extremists in every country feel emboldened when they see extreme ideas gain traciton elsewhere.
junkgoof
Unfortunately only the corporate oligarchy distractions and not things that would help. Being in a cult is no fun, I knew some 7 days and witnesses in high school. They were nice, but they were always getting yelled at by their families for interacting with non-cultists. It’s high school, sitting in the corner facing the wall is not fun.
DSREX
It is why the religious groups do the door to door thing, it is not to get new people it is to make the door knockers feel more isolated.
Every time someone is rude to them or dismissive it reinforces the BS the church is saying.
It is also why the Mormon's send teens, they are the most at risk of leaving.
Noctourn
It should also be pointed out the 7th day Adventist church was already an extremist cult. They don't use logic. Once my brain developed, I left that cult
DSREX
There are way too many here in the states, I wish they were more obscure.
jrntn
There's a good chance your brother has a long list of people he wants to die and he is one election cycle away from admitting it
hugyourhedgehog
My dad went very strict fundamental seventh day the last time he got out of jail, about 20 years ago. I understood why, at the time, he went so fundamental, because he NEEDED rules and structure and people to hold him accountable, to keep him from going back to the chaos. He doesn't understand the religion is extreme. He thinks of course it is 100% the only truth. Because "worldiness and sin led him to prison." He thinks it's all or nothing, that people can't be good just to be good.
userfriendly19777
Christopher Hitchens once said that the highest percentage of Christians are in the prisons.
pip1
I largely agree with your assessment of Denmark religiously, but. Politically there is plenty of racism in Denmark, both amongst population and elected politicians. That racism is very often dressed up as a question of culture and especially religion, ie 'good Christian values' contra 'evil, misogynist bloodthirsty Muslim values'
userfriendly19777
That is correct, regretably. And this racism has crept in in most parties, including the ruling social democrats. Why do you think they have kept their seats for so long?
woozle
Tell me you know absolutely nothing about the Bible and Christianity without telling me. (Not you OP, your weird brother)
lumacman
I as a follower of Christ kinda payed attention when my master was asked what was the commandment that fulfills the law and the profits. Love the lord your God with all you are. Amd the second is like it. Love your neighbor as yourself.
While I know adding to that human wisdom might be dangerous, I don’t think he would disagree. Love God, love people, and DO NOT be a dick.
LurkMasterP
Unfortunately they know everything they need to know to use it in the modern context. They were taught that their religion gives them an excuse to bully everyone and a shield to hide behind so they can claim to be persecuted when people resist their shit.
woozle
I went to Bible college and seminary. I was an army chaplain. I have run into those people many times and it's difficult not to eyeroll
Noremakm
as an active mormon, a graduate of BYU-Idaho (where everyone has to basically get a minor in religion) I HATE when these kinda people show their true colors at church.
I personally follow a stricter life style and think that it brings me closer to God. I do not want to force my lifestyle on anyone else.
KommanderKayriel
Exactly. Religion should not be about organizations, that's just a draw of power. Religion should be about your personal spiritual relationship with your deific concept of choice.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, two things, prayer in schools has nothing to do with faith and everything to do with bullying.
Second, I went to college in upstate NY, the home of the most insane 19th Century religious movements you can image, Mormons, Shakers, Oneida Utopians, 7th Day Adventists...
The Shaker furniture is still worshipped today for its functionality and simplicity, oddly, they died out cuz they wouldn't fuck each other... The Mormons, well, I am not getting into what is clearly a scam by Joseph Smith...
mikeatike
Yea, even in the USA the home of weird Christian sects, 7th Day Adventists are weirdos.
Knowing Better Video: https://youtu.be/hEEIyg_J2g0
bippityboppitybuttsex
Oddly it is upstate New York, not the entire US
VidaVita
I grew up and live in Salt Lake City, as a non-mormon, don't even get me started... For those who haven't seen the South Park episode about Mormon's... It's quite accurate. Also saw The Book of Mormon stage play, hilarious and even more accurate.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Check out Alyssa Grenfell, she is an ex-Mormon with a Youtube channel on how the church abuses women...
https://www.youtube.com/@alyssadgrenfell
tallyhoho
Can we go back to the shakers please I need to know more
bippityboppitybuttsex
The United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing, aka The Shakers ... they bounced around a lot during religious services, so they were known as the Shaking Quakers... they were early communal and celibate utopians, embracing pacifism, equality of the sexes, and pacifism... They embraced simple living and built furniture for that purpose... TBH, it is the furniture that is the thing we, as a society, still embrace... they have an incredible elegance to the simplicity of their designs
TinkerThinker42
What are the chances they were a collection of asexual people with high functioning autism and a special interest in furniture?
15% maybe?
bippityboppitybuttsex
Not sure... but if you google Shaker Furniture and look at woodworking videos, everyone loves their stuff... mostly because it was the first migration from extremely fancy, unobtainable pieces, to purely function furniture... i.e. a table with legs and a top... a dresser with drawers... basically a form follows function that would make Louis Sullivan proud.
Remember, the end of the 19th Century was about awakenings, embracing simplicity... the Shaker Furniture exemplified that...
bippityboppitybuttsex
The Oneidas still produce silverware, and pretty good, mass-market stuff...
The Seventh Day Adventists are kinda weird, opposing blood transfusions (which is not actually banned, but they refuse them) and basically a Kosherite diet and they celebrate their sabbath on Saturday... generally I found them to be polite and nice people... TBH, most religious folk are nice, in person, while they destroy you, politically, in private.
TheFastpaws
You summed up Oklahoma perfectly. Nice people up front but very much so will stab you in the back privately.
ThrowerBot
My coworker is 7th-day, and 90% of what he says about his religion proves that he has only read extremely specific parts of the Bible. They seem to have a hard-on for the old testament and all its doom and gloom, but still claim to be Christians. You can't have both, damnit!
leodavinci1
"They seem to have a hard-on for the old testament and all its doom and gloom, but still claim to be Christians.".. and give lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Which is pretty much modern day Evangelical Christianity in a nutshell.
tentacularfleshscape
Every time you see him wearing mixed fabrics tell him he should be stoned to desth
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yeah, I don't know why Christians love the Torah so much... it isn't their book... their whole thing was a new covenant, a kinder, gentler g-d who doesn't slaughter people, en masse....
I will note that both Old and New Testaments preach, consistently, that rich people are evil and that we should welcome the stranger, heal the sick and feed the hungry... tho, a lot of religious people find that inconvenient, so they ignore it.
leodavinci1
"...both Old and New Testaments preach, consistently, that rich people are evil..." No, they don't.
Keairan
As ex SDA, I never came across the anti-blood transfusion thing. I mean, they aren't unrelated to Jehovah's Witnesses, but they aren't the same thing by any stretch.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Oh, sorry, I am confusing the two... I seem to remember SDA having some medical thing... but I am probably mixing them up...
Keairan
They will give you shit if you get sick, like diet, vaccines and proper exercise will keep you perfectly healthy no matter what, which is bullshit. That's their weird medical shtick. How my local church treated my mom when she got breast cancer is a large part of why she left, and I left for a multitude of reasons but that did heavily contribute to why.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, we look back at Christian Scientists, Divine Science, the Unity School of Christianity, and the United Church of Religious Science, et al, and we mock them for being anti-Doctor or anti-Science in the 1870s... when, going to the doctor was more likely to kill you than staying home and getting rest and drinking lots of fluids... a lot of people were kept sick by barbaric early medical practices (and experimented on by doctors).... the weird thing is that they didn't change their position...
vanishing
The primary reason for the separation of church and state in the US constitution was to protect Christians from other Christians. Probably the biggest case of religious violence in the immediate memory of the founding fathers was the English civil war. 7th Day Adventists would be among the first on the chopping block if Christians came to real power.
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androgenoide
And, realistically, almost all of them would be persecuted minorities. The only way you can claim a Christian majority in the U.S. is to lump together a number of mutually hostile sects. Catholics are the closest to a majority but even they are less than half.
LiminallyInsane
Yes! It's aggravating to me how much people don't know about this. The pioneer of the idea of separation of church and state was the founder of Rhode Island, a baptist minister. Most other colonies were founded for specific Christian sects, and he felt that this power of the *state* was corrupting the *church*, abusing that power for mandated worship.
boognish115
Makes sense. The pilgrims came to America to separate from the Church of England. For all colonies to agree with each other they had to keep religion out of gov unlike what europe was doing.
rockmanx853000
Exactly what I’m thinking. All these smaller denominations think it’s a win but if the most popular and powerful denomination gets the control then they be learning the hard way. I think people will forget there are more Catholics than they are of other other denominations.
GermanSausagesAreTheWurst
The only reason the "Evangelicals" tolerate the Catholics is so they can say that "Christianity" is the largest religion in the world. Other than that, they think the Catholics are heathens who worship the saints. That animosity between them is right under the surface, and it shouldn't be too hard to stir it up again. Divide and conquer. The Russians showed us how effective trolling is as a weapon. Now go out there do some of your own.
rockmanx853000
THIS! JD Vance is a proudly converted Catholic. Imagine his dumbass talking casually that all the charter schools going to teach religion now are going to be Catholic since there’s more to them than every other Christian combined. We can easily go back to the founding of the country whenever everyone hated the Irish, Italians, and other minorities for also being Catholic.
GermanSausagesAreTheWurst
Yup, and thanks to 45, the Supreme Court is majority Catholic. I've been trying to scare MAGAs by telling them that the flag of the Vatican will be flying over the Capital soon. It might be the only way to get through to them. They respond to fear.
rockmanx853000
Right now the Supreme Court is hearing arguments to allow charter schools to become Christian private schools and the states have to pay for it. The only sane judge argued then what about our Christian denominations? Jewish? Muslim? Even satanist? I think the Catholics are going the whipping boy again and take the lose as we convince them pope, Vatican, saints, and theology are more popular and outnumber them.