If the Democrats win they need to overturn this. Doesn’t matter what the current rules say. Rules never mattered so we need to break it to get these harmful bastards tried.
After Trump is gone, I'm going to ask my representative to introduce a bill making it so that presidents cannot pardon members of their own administration, or the 3 previous administrations and make that bill retroactive.
Well quick question what State crimes could be brought? DC is not a state they don't have state laws. So anyone inside the White House would not be breaking any state laws
There are no rules anymore, pardons only have power if we let them. He and those who followed his orders committed crimes that must be punished and if we have to obliterate the constitution to do it, so be it. Any constitution that says we can not punish those who have committed these crimes because the criminals don't want to be punished can and should be declared invalid and burned.
They have already obliterated it. You can't- or shouldn't be able to- so thoroughly trample other people's constitutional rights and then expect that it is still something that will protect you.
Yeah, he's nothing if not spiteful. I wouldn't be surprised if he said he did it and just left/died ready to watch them all burn. He doesn't care about them. He only cares about himself.
On December 25, 1868, President Andrew Johnson issued Proclamation 179, a final "Christmas Amnesty" that granted full pardon and restoration of all rights—including voting and office-holding—to all former Confederates. This proclamation effectively removed remaining political disabilities for treason against the United States, concluding a series of pardons by eliminating the need for loyalty oaths.
So, a pardon has risks.... the biggest one is that the pardoned individual loses their right to invoke the fifth amendment... since they face no jeopardy, testifying on their actions places them in no jeopardy so they can be compelled to testify against themselves and, more importantly, others.
trump's immunity from SCOTUS covers official acts. Insider Trading is not an official act, which means he and anyone who benefited (or failed to lose) can be arrested by the SEC.
Who is gonna persecute them? The republican majority controlled government? The Democrats that put on a show of resistance instead of actually resisting?
at this point methinks America could do far worse than utterly cleansing the entirety of all 3 pillars of your government and replacing them with fresh... non ghoul variants. People of TODAY and not 80+ year old monsters only grasping for more money and caring so little about anyone but themselves. A few weeks of some level of chaos before a new, clean, and strong 'for the people' build upon a new, stable and study groundwork would do not just America good, but would be a boon to the whole world
We have the govt we voted for... the reason there are 80 and 90 year olds in govt is cuz people voted for them...
I would agree that the US has too powerful an executive and the framers of the Constitution just wrote a document with an elected king... it just took 240 years for us to finally elect a true despot.
Yes, they lie without blinking, but I have noticed they become extremely careful under oath... even trump's lies get suspended when he is being deposed (a lesson prob learned from Bill Clinton).
The threat of a perjury charge is real to them... that is why they refuse to be sworn in when testifying before Congress.
Dont forget hes been manipulating the global market, not just the US market. Other countries dont give a damn about pardons. He and his family may have to go into hiding. Bank CEOs are not immune either, they need to be exposed and outed along with the administration for allowing this shit to be bank rolled through their establishments.
Because he doesn't have absolute immunity - he has immunity for official acts (as interpreted by SCOTUS). He could pardon himself for acts that aren't likely to be considered official to give himself another layer of legal protection.
I have heard it interpreted that everything the president does is part of his official acts... like taking bribes for pardons or threatening genocide or leaking insider info to cronies to manipulate the markets.
What is or is not an official act depends on the court's rulings. SCOTUS is very conservative but it doesn't ~always~ rule in Trump's favour. So if the "it was an official act" argument fails, then they can fall back on "it doesn't matter anyway because he's pardoned". Same goal, different tools
Dustorm
If the Democrats win they need to overturn this. Doesn’t matter what the current rules say. Rules never mattered so we need to break it to get these harmful bastards tried.
Apeofdeath
If Trump dies
Onebigcanuck
Pardons won't keep someone from being Luigied.
EroticZombiePants
Jokes on them because he doesn't plan on leaving the office alive.
enkrypt3d
BUT BIDEN!!
gayvillian
Yeah but if he uses an autopen, they're invalid.
Zetor
What an odd thing to say. Are they guilty of something?
SinisterSlaw
I mean come on we all knew that would happen already.
Imadethisaccounttopost
Guess we'll have to hunt them down ourselves
anjeleyezjr
A pardon before a conviction? Yeah, that shit won't work.
rafizard
I don't recognize his pardons.
bloxxing
except maybe if he leaves suddenly, in a body bag.
ChelVanin
I didn’t know pardons had an AoE.
largomatic
Wololo?
brazzy42
Looking at the bright side: it means he's willing to leave office...
UseYourVoice
After Trump is gone, I'm going to ask my representative to introduce a bill making it so that presidents cannot pardon members of their own administration, or the 3 previous administrations and make that bill retroactive.
jankyupeblik
Also they'll all have committed non-federal crimes.
CaldariBob
Just like the Founding Fathers intended.
lightfoot2
Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh God this is so far beyond funny.
First, state crimes will keep them in jail forever.
Second pardoned people can be forced to testify or be jailed.
Third: if he doesn't live, you're screwed so badly it's not funny
Fourth: You would trust this guy to keep his word? Fuck, expect to either pay 1m per offense or just be screwed on principle.
PlaceHolderTitle
Well quick question what State crimes could be brought? DC is not a state they don't have state laws. So anyone inside the White House would not be breaking any state laws
bearded3d
How the fuck do you pre-pardon criminals? He's going to pardon people *before* leaving office? How does that even work?
FoxxoniusAugustus
There are no rules anymore, pardons only have power if we let them. He and those who followed his orders committed crimes that must be punished and if we have to obliterate the constitution to do it, so be it. Any constitution that says we can not punish those who have committed these crimes because the criminals don't want to be punished can and should be declared invalid and burned.
koalamonster
They have already obliterated it. You can't- or shouldn't be able to- so thoroughly trample other people's constitutional rights and then expect that it is still something that will protect you.
NeoAcario
It needs to be amended to be unable to pardon from crimes involving YOU.
mksu
Whatever it takes, these pardons must not grant them immunity from justice.
Sebastopol140
Roqinn
So, he knows they are doing illegal shit. Why else would they need pardons?
boobsalot
Apeofdeath
What if Trump dies before that
SleepyHollowAppleTree
allenvasher3000
I could just see him not doing it because why would he care about them they served their purpose
runesky77
Yeah, he's nothing if not spiteful. I wouldn't be surprised if he said he did it and just left/died ready to watch them all burn. He doesn't care about them. He only cares about himself.
FukcTedCruz
They will "Weekend at Bernie's" him for a couple of days showing him signing the pardons using AI video
friendsofsandwiches
Just stick a pen in his hand, hold it steady, and then earthquake the paper along
TheRealSauceBoss
They were already typed and signed the moment that orange shit gibbon walked back into the oval.
SquashDemon
Thanks two thirds of the Electorate!
JustFeedMePieDammit
Orrrr they'll auto pen it and blame Biden
Neanderthalersutopiaphilandrousanteatersotherbrother
Signed donald J Biden
JustFeedMePieDammit
Would be pretty funny if this bullshit removes the presidents pardon powers
IrrationalNumber
Can a pardon even be issued before a conviction has taken place?
0Steve0
Isn't that what happened with the people who fled the USA to avoid going to the Vietnam War? Mass pardons?
eronth
It's been done before, the legality has been questionable but nobody has really tried to fight it yet so it's just stood.
TheRealSauceBoss
Blanket pardon for any acts performed for the president. No one is gonna try and untangle the legal mess that causes.
Dustorm
Then treat it like the Gordian knot and cut it. Jail them, I don’t care who the genocidal, pedophilic, war criminal pardons.
allenvasher3000
Yeah & Biden blanket pardon people he thought Trump might go after
Autittuderp
No...that's conspiracy, out loud and proud. Wild.
shalafi71
Johnson and Biden did it. This is history, not an opinion.
Kyzyl
Andrew Johnson in 1868 after the Civil War.
Not LBJ.
shalafi71
"On Sunday, September 8, 1974, President Ford addressed the nation from the Oval Office to announce his decision to “grant a full, free and absolute pardon unto Richard Nixon for all offenses against the United States which he, Richard Nixon, has committed or may have committed.” https://www.fordlibrarymuseum.gov/digital-research-room/library-collections/topic-guides/nixon-pardon
Sonicschilidogs
Johnson? When?
Kyzyl
On December 25, 1868, President Andrew Johnson issued Proclamation 179, a final "Christmas Amnesty" that granted full pardon and restoration of all rights—including voting and office-holding—to all former Confederates. This proclamation effectively removed remaining political disabilities for treason against the United States, concluding a series of pardons by eliminating the need for loyalty oaths.
Sonicschilidogs
Oh shit, I was thinking Linden B. Johnson, I wasn't even thinking that far back. That's my B.
bippityboppitybuttsex
So, a pardon has risks.... the biggest one is that the pardoned individual loses their right to invoke the fifth amendment... since they face no jeopardy, testifying on their actions places them in no jeopardy so they can be compelled to testify against themselves and, more importantly, others.
trump's immunity from SCOTUS covers official acts. Insider Trading is not an official act, which means he and anyone who benefited (or failed to lose) can be arrested by the SEC.
ewgerard15
I'm commenting to save this clear and concise statement.
FajitaPrinceofAllMexicans
Problem.
Who is gonna persecute them? The republican majority controlled government? The Democrats that put on a show of resistance instead of actually resisting?
PanNonOpticon
Isn't SEC violation a federal crime?
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yep...
LuveBunny
I believe a pardon can also but adjudicated if its corruptly granted
bippityboppitybuttsex
Not true... a pardon is absolute and since it is official act, even if trump took cash for it, it would still be valid.
AntaNce
One thing is accepting a pardon is admitting to the crime. Goes on ya permanent record, y'all.
bippityboppitybuttsex
The Chrisley's are career criminals... and Lifetime gave them a show after their pardons.
paullyboy1999
He wont be alive when he leaves office
smashpro1
Put his fucking corpse on the stand like that one medieval pope.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Probably, but a lot of his coconspirators will be....
Sixsystems
And that can't be soon enough.
haytur
At this point just send them to jail and ignore the Supreme Court. Because why not eesh
AtmaDarkwolf
at this point methinks America could do far worse than utterly cleansing the entirety of all 3 pillars of your government and replacing them with fresh... non ghoul variants. People of TODAY and not 80+ year old monsters only grasping for more money and caring so little about anyone but themselves. A few weeks of some level of chaos before a new, clean, and strong 'for the people' build upon a new, stable and study groundwork would do not just America good, but would be a boon to the whole world
bippityboppitybuttsex
We have the govt we voted for... the reason there are 80 and 90 year olds in govt is cuz people voted for them...
I would agree that the US has too powerful an executive and the framers of the Constitution just wrote a document with an elected king... it just took 240 years for us to finally elect a true despot.
backrideup9
Pleading the 5th means nothing to them since their lies are so ingrained they won't have to make up a story on the fly.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Yes, they lie without blinking, but I have noticed they become extremely careful under oath... even trump's lies get suspended when he is being deposed (a lesson prob learned from Bill Clinton).
The threat of a perjury charge is real to them... that is why they refuse to be sworn in when testifying before Congress.
azgrak1
Presidential pardons don’t cover state crimes, just federal.
klausvonlichtenstein
AND CALL YOUR STATE REPRESENTATIVES and ask them to draft or support legislation that makes a federal crime a state crime.
It’s one of the best things a state can do right now for democracy and there’s nothing the fed can do to stop it. Presidential pardon has no effect.
STATES RIGHTS DO MATTER. Folks (not you obviously lol) have just been lied to about how they work.
The swamp ain’t gonna drain itself. We gotta soak it up using every page of every law on the books.
reurra
Dont forget hes been manipulating the global market, not just the US market. Other countries dont give a damn about pardons. He and his family may have to go into hiding. Bank CEOs are not immune either, they need to be exposed and outed along with the administration for allowing this shit to be bank rolled through their establishments.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Like the warrant against Netanyahu that is being actively ignored by Hungary?
georgejimmydoodle
Unless he pardons himself. It's never been tried, so we don't know if it's constitutional or not.
bippityboppitybuttsex
Why would someone with absolute immunity need to pardon themselves?
SCOTUS ensured the US would be destroyed... they signed the literally death warrant for the US by granting trump absolute immunity.
loma45
Because he doesn't have absolute immunity - he has immunity for official acts (as interpreted by SCOTUS). He could pardon himself for acts that aren't likely to be considered official to give himself another layer of legal protection.
bippityboppitybuttsex
What is not an official act?
I have heard it interpreted that everything the president does is part of his official acts... like taking bribes for pardons or threatening genocide or leaking insider info to cronies to manipulate the markets.
loma45
What is or is not an official act depends on the court's rulings. SCOTUS is very conservative but it doesn't ~always~ rule in Trump's favour. So if the "it was an official act" argument fails, then they can fall back on "it doesn't matter anyway because he's pardoned". Same goal, different tools