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1. LED lifespan ratings are a broad average, not a promise
2. LED drivers overheat and fail
3. Your home electrical power may not be 'clean'
4. Sockets may be old or installation may be poor
5. Your home may have high humidity
6. LED bulbs and old dimmers don't mix
7. Quality control issues can be a factor
8. Finally, the manufacturing quality of LED bulbs will affect all the issues discussed above.
https://www.cnet.com/home/smart-home/experts-answer-why-our-led-lights-die-so-quickly/
erickey942000
10,000 hours my ass š
hotaru251
theres a guy on YT who does investigating and tinkering.
He had a box of old dead led lights and one day decided to take em apart and see why they sucked..turns out its basically manufacturer cheaping out on the components and they effectively cook themselves w/o proper cooling
Cronos51101
I spent $36 on a "100W" LED in 2014 for a security light. It's on overnight, every night. It's upsetting how many newer ones have failed...
Dipsomaniac
I've never replaced an LED light.
xaddak
I've never replaced an LED light this month.
thedarklord187
I've been buying and using LEDs since they came to market and have used them in four different homes and I have never once had a failed LED light are you guys buying these things from a back street alley or what?
LumensAquilae
When I moved in over 5 years ago I replaced every single bulb in the place with Home Depot store brand LED bulbs. All of them have held up except for one particular socket in a bathroom light fixture which has needed replaced 3 times in 5 years. Other lights in that same fixture are fine, so I don't know what's up with that one socket but I'm not enough of an electrician to dig in.
Sculpin2
The old LED lights came with big (expensive) aluminum heat sinks. The new ones just have the LEDs hanging out in space or on a thin metal platen with limited heat diffusion. Heat shortens LED lifespans significantly which is why they no longer last as long.
Pieccentric
Bruh I have bought about 20 LED lightbulbs of the cheapest Walmart equivalent when I moved into my relatively big apartment in Germany 4 years ago, and so far had to change 1 that was flickering. It's either your weird power grid that has outages every year or so, or possibly your non-EU import standards
GreaterDog
Virtually every LED bulb has an accompanying statement that it shouldn't be used in an enclosure. It's a disclaimer for when they overheat in a standard fixture because their lifespan was qualified with open airflow
LittleRobot71
A fun little video showing what you could have if we had regulation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klaJqofCsu4
ChloeRed
Almost all my lamps are from brands Big Clive has taken apart and said they are OK inside. 1 lamp has dimmed, but not failed since then.
mikeatike
Clicked expecting bigclive and Dubai lights. Not dissapointed. :)
LittleRobot71
Ya, every LED light I've ever had fail was because of overheating.
I'm actually lighting half my house with LED tape right now, and that has lasted 3 years with zero failures, probably because it barely runs warm.
huffnpuff72
Probably gonna jinx me, but haven't had any 'decent' led need replacing in over 10 years in this house. Have had maybe 3 LED panels fail at work in a couple of years when I was changing flouro tubes every few weeks.
technicalfool
Yep, cheaparse bulbs are overdriven and burn up. I've gotten some nice RGBW bulbs that aren't as bright, but just shoved three of them in a 3-way splitter, with the advantage that they have an internal battery and can be pulled out of their magnetic base. Power failure? 3AM munchies? Yoink a bulb from its base and do what you're doing. Haven't had any problems yet, and the controller is IR so no stupid cloudy app-controlled shit either.
GoodChange
I have only led lights and the latest purchase was before Covid. I donāt think Iāve ever had one break. Maybe itās about the brands you buy rather than the technology. Most of mine are IKEA so fairly cheap but good quality.
Type17
I'm running about 70 IKEA LEDs/drivers for about 2 years now, and no issues yet either, but it probably helps that I'm mostly running them at 1-40% brightness. Home Assistant FTW.
funkystay
Zigbee2MQTT FTW!
Type17
I looked into it and it would take about a week for me to re-pair everything, so Iām happy enough with ZHA, thereās a lot of clients so the network is very resilient, and Iām also using Zwave for the gate and mailbox which are further away.
rmuk
I'm in the UK and I've never, ever had an LED bulb fail, while 20 years ago incandescents failed regularly. I don't know how relevant it is, but most big manufacturers only produce a single model globally these days. The same bulb on a 115V circuit would draw double the current as on a 230V circuit for equal output, taxing the electronics more. I wonder if someone compared the same model in the US vs the UK, would the lifespan be different?
AbsolutelyNotBacon
Also: if you choose your LED bulbs by sorting by cheapest, that might have something to do with it. There's huge differences in quality.
marthafarquar
If you don't think you are getting ripped off look up Phillips Dubai lamps, they are guaranteed to last 25000 hours and use much less electricity than a standard led lamp. They were commissioned by the Dubai government and not available anywhere else.
Kats8652
Philips has an Ultra efficiƫnt lamp available 4 watts 60 Watt output that lasts up to 50000 hours btw.
rigello
Heat is the key. Don't use your LED lamps in small enclosures with restricted airflow. For example upside-down funnel-like lampshades collect warm air at the base of the bulb where the electronics is. Over time capacitors degrade and lamp fails.
CelestialSea
In the 1920s, every major light bulb producer in the world met and agreed to a standard failure rate for bulbs, they all had walls of their competitors bulbs going 24/7 and if a given product lasted longer than 1,000 hours the other companies would impose a fine on the producer of that bulb. It was known as the Phoebus Cartel and only ended because the companies could no longer communicate and share their products during WWII. LED bulbs fail prematurely because companies sell more bulbs that way
jammer909
I find Sylvania led bulbs last a good long while.
Chowphat
Sylvania and Phillips. I don't buy cheap bulbs. The place where I worked had electrical line filters in all of their rooms because the test equipment was so sensitive. They switched to LEDs in both the desk lamps and the fluorescent ceiling lights over ten years ago, and I don't think any have burned out.
jammer909
I've got some Sylvania bulbs like that. Early LED bulbs so they're bulky, but they just won't die.
3nergy
Plug all LED lights into surge protectors as well. Lots of flyback current from AC lines even though most homes are somewhat protected. Only takes micro Amps to flow through an Led. Closer to 6 to 9 volts and they fry
lilbrother
I am a lighting design professional.
#1 you get what you pay for. Buy cheap shit from China.com, then you take the risk. Buy from a reputable company with a physical address, that stands behind their name, then you get a guarantee of quality and a warranty.
#2 LEDs donāt like heat. If youāre putting an LED bulb in an inclosed light fixture, make sure that the label says āenclosed fixture ratedā. If not. It is likely to fail prematurely.
lilbrother
#3 understanding CRI, Color Temperature, and seeing a fixture or bulb function before you buy it will make selecting the right light much easier.
#4 good LEDs are fucking great! Truly a revolutionary technology.
Shoutrr
i have one led bulb i bought 15 years ago that is still going strong and is in use quite a few hours per day. and i had led spots that crapped out after a few days due to faulty solder
turbodog
I have solder-bypassed individual LEDs in some of my kitchen bulbs when they have burned out. I cannot tell the difference between 15 and 16 LEDs, and I ain't burned down the house. Yet. For this reason. Yet.
PhailRaptor
Is there.... another reason?
mithiwithi
Well, I mean someone who's comfortable field-modifying LED bulbs probably feels comfortable tinkering with lots of other electronics...
PhailRaptor
Is it a blender with a really long cord, manufactured before safety fuses were a thing?
spiritplumber
Buy a Schottky diode and put it in series with the led array. This undervolts the whole thing by 0.2 to 0.3 volts, you won't see it, but they will run a lot cooler.
flagbasher
I still don't think I've had a PAR30 (can light) LED ever burn out yet. I've had a few standard size LED bulbs go out. I even use "indoor" HUE LEDs in my outside fixtures and they're still alive after like 10+ years.
flagbasher
That said, I usually buy Phillips HUE for smart bulbs, and for dumb bulbs either regular Phillips, GE, Sylvania, or Cree.
Evenmoreuselessname
My PAR30 bulbs are all from 2013 and HEAVY with huge heatsinks around them. Almost too heavy for the can fixtures. They're all in good shape. I find the "filament" bulbs seem to actually last longer than the new cheaply made regular bulbs. Even the GE and Philips are light as a feather now. At least the filament bulbs I bought use a glass globe for better heat dispassion.
flagbasher
My first ones are when they still cost $50 each. I think I bought 4. They are aluminum and the heat dissipation fins make up most of the PAR30 shape. They look alien. Most of the rest are Cree and seem to be glass with a rubberized coating. MAYBE one of those died, now that I think about it. I think I have 20 in the house. Bought those when PAR30s got down to about $8 apiece, IIRC. Cost of standard LEDs dropped hard. Slowly been converting things to Philips HUE over time as my wallet allows.
SilverNicktail
Also please start making/buying devices with replaceable LED bulbs again rather than entire slim devices you have to entirely throw away when the LEDs die (because fuck knows most people aren't pulling out a soldering iron to fix 'em).
Chereazi
The only LED bulb I've ever had to switch out in like 10 years was one that stopped working because I ran against it with my head... Not really the LEDs fault xD
Either people buy total garbage, or mistreat them a lot. LED bulbs need good ventilation, if there's no good cooling they can get too hot and fail much much quicker. That includes old sockets potentially not being suitable for LEDs
JustLettingPeopleBeWrong
Every LED bulb in this house was here before we bought it 8 years ago, and we haven't had to replace a single one so far.
ManholeStellarReconveneSubstanceOlympicsReunion
I've got one that is unfortunately in a fixture that holds too much heat. So that one is on me. The other two are in my outside front door lights and at this point I'm pretty sure I just need to replace the fixtures cause they do some weird shit. Beyond that I've got about 2 dozen LEDs around my house that have worked for around 15 years.
Telemapus
I can also confirm I have three matching Gu10 bulbs that have been running for 12 years now. A forth started flickering about a year ago so I swapped it out. I haven't swapped any other LED downlight bulb in my house since installing it. I also have a few first generation Philips Hue bulbs in my setup, including an Edison-screw type bulb that I got pre-release as part of a PR thing. So that one is more than 12 years old too.
divingin
I had a fairly high early failure rate when I first started switching over (like 10 to 15 percent in the first 4 months or so), but newer bulbs seem to have gotten better. The ones that did last are still working.
MrglBrglGrgl
LED lights get hot?
Chereazi
Yup, all the electronics in there get pretty hot. By far not as hot as iridescent bulbs, but hot enough that it damages itself over time if it's in an enclosed area where the heat can't be transported off.
myeyesthegogglesdonothing
Incandescent
MrglBrglGrgl
Huh. I've always thought they ran cool. At least I don't remember mine ever being painfully hot to touch.
Chereazi
The bulb stays cool usually, parts of the base get hot, usually only really noticeable if you screw it out right after it's been turned on for a bit.
I got some sunlight LEDs for my palms for example with a very open, well ventilated socket design, and if I touch those in a wrong way while working with the plants they actually hurt a LOT. And their power consumption is just 10W, not exactly crazy power houses.
Evenmoreuselessname
Hot for electronics. Like 70c. Cooks the caps they use.
MrglBrglGrgl
I mean, 70c is pretty hot for me, too
poorwegian
Not mentioned: if all LED lightbulbs lasted the claimed amount of hours, people would buy far fewer bulbs so companies have no incentive to make it better. The same thing happened with incandescent bulbs: they were lasting too long so they made them worse. See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel
cepacolusmaximus
"capitalism breeds innovation!"
Resenate
Til https://media1.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTY1YjkxZmJlYnZpa21ubDNqZ3RkcGs4aXUyYThhdnBwNXllcGtsZWx1azNsN3ZvZSZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/rinvueBHprYyY/giphy.mp4
idrinkcheapbeer
refrigerators, washing machines, televisions, its all "build things to be replaced"
DevilsAdvocat
Made to fail is a real thing, and technically this is one.. but not even remotely in the way you think... make sure you understand the nuance before you start peddling conspiracy theories or you'll end up falling down a bad hole...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb7Bs98KmnY
HonestCommentFarmer
Yes, but false advertising is false advertising.
Zedrapazia
I have a table lamp with a lightbulb from my grandfather that is roughly 40-50 years old, and I have absolutely no fucking idea why and how it still works.
Zahnradfee
How much wattage?
Zedrapazia
I have no idea, the bulb was already in the lamp when I got it and I've never removed it.
It's more of a warm than bright light tho, albeit still pretty bright, and it gets untouchably hot over time.
Trimule
There is a carbon fiber element bulb at a Livermore CA fire station that has been burning continuously since 1901!
SandyRiverDL
Low power, dim, and the fact that it stays on really helps.
Trimule
Yeah, down from 60 W. to about 4 W., but 124 years non stop has some "Wow" factor.
tachyx
The US automotive industry
JohnThatcher
The *everything* industry. Yay capitalism?
Alozar
Yea this is just reality as long as profit is a factor.
TiroDvD
I disagree. Non-profits are greatly incentivized to be inefficient too. If their goal is achieved the donations stop. Hence large potions are for "education" which is just promotion/advertisement of the non profit, instead of research or implementation of solutions.
Phant0m5
Nobody likes hearing "it's more complicated than that" but... it's more complicated than that. Incandescent bulbs are most efficient at very high temperatures, which incidentally also causes them to break down noticeably faster. You can make a normal incandescent last seemingly forever with a dimmer, but it dims sharply with even a little less power, a non-linear curve. So you can have your forever bulbs if you like having three times more lamps around.
hogeyegrex
I have been known to replace small bulbs in equipment with ones rated for twice the voltage and twice the current. Running at half their rated current gives off a similar amount of light, but they last way longer. Particularly useful for things that have lots of small bulbs.
theAught
Indeed I do sir. I love me some yellow orange light. I hate bright lights. My life goal is to have a house fully lit like it was 1910
coolnotcooljkcool
i too like the old orange hue
oldscrotumthewrinkledretainer
I didn't like hearing that.
MichelGoussu
Well, I think it is a little more complicated than that.
Falcrist
Yea the centennial lightbulb has been going continuously since 1901. It's being run at about 4 watts, so it's not very bright, but it may continue to run for hundreds of years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light
chammey
I bought 15W LED E27 screw bulbs. I opened them up, and derated their output to ~6W by removing one of the tiny resistors. Now they run about 50Ā°C instead of thermal throttling at over 90Ā°C. I've not had a single bulb fail or even soft flicker.
Every single component is used at their full rated power from the datasheet. The count and power of LEDs, the size of capacitor, the size of the bulb heatsink. But by de-rating, LEDs run about 10-30% more efficient, and produce less heat overall.
mikeatike
Basically a homemade Dubai light. I need to replace a bunch of old-ass bulbs in old multi-bulb fixtures. I think I'll do this too.
Remmon1
Pretty much this. You can put 10 1W LEDs in a light to get a 10W light and it'll last a few years. Or you can put 15 1W LEDs in a light to get a 10W light and it'll last 2 to 3 decades (At least, assuming no power surges/brownouts).
chammey
When LEDs run cooler, they are more efficient and don't lose long-term brightness as fast. The lower heating of the bulb doesn't stress other components (capacitors die from heat) and their solder joints.
If you can't open the LED and change resistor values of the driver, alternative is to place in series with the lamp a polyester film capacitor. Voltage rating must be +100V from the mains, and good starting capacitance would be about 0.3-1uF. Here's some yt links:
chammey
How to hack LED screw lamps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HTa2jVi_rc
How to hack LED floodlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biEZ1TbdhhU
Be careful with mains voltage, discharge capacitors before touching anything, never connect electrolytic capacitors to mains voltage, make sure voltage does not exceed capacitor rating.
hogeyegrex
Interesting. Iāll have to check that out.
Smidge204
Stop buying the cheapest shit you can find on Amazon and you'll get much better value for the money even compared to incandescent bulbs.
SocoFox
I have cheap Amazon lights that have been out in the elements still working and Phillips LED bulbs that started failing pretty quickly.
FlintNorth44
Also, stop buying from Amazon.
parabolic000
yeah, the expensive brand-name ones fail just as quickly as the bulk pack for me. It's probably the outlet, but a lightbulb every couple years is way more affordable than an electrician.
dashers
I've had a mix. Philips and Osram, they tend to fair well. My lounge has dimmable Philips which are now on year 11.
ImNotActuallyEvilAfterAll
No guarantees that paying more gets you anything better. Just keep receiots and claim warranty.
Isorikk
There's a big problem on Amazon with copyright theft where Chinese manufacturers will copy a product but make it much cheaper, which cheaper parts, and promise fake warranties that they'll likely never have to honor because the group selling them will evaporate within six months.
Isorikk
I don't say this to disparage Chinese btw, they can make some great quality products, but we sold American industry out to them and they don't care about international copyright law.
zertmaster
I have had more generic bulbs that lasted longer than expensive name brands.
HandoB4Javert
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philips_Hue
We're still rocking the gen 1's from 2012 without issue.
Evenmoreuselessname
All my old bulbs from 2012-2015 are fine. Some of the newer ones from 2016-2019 are good, a few have died. Anything newer than 2020 seems to die about exactly when an incandescent would.
Vergenbuurg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory
LurkingSarcasm
That was true before capitalism ruined almost everything
hogeyegrex
I put six Philips Hue lights in the house in 2017. Had one go wonky earlier this year. In my experience, LEDs last a fair while.
dotStart
Had mine since 2021 and I'm still on the original two packages I bought back then. Funnily enough the warm white Hue compatible bulbs from IKEA seem to fare similarly well. Haven't had one of those fail either.
hogeyegrex
I didnāt know ikea did hue compatibles. Might have to look into that.
dlshark
I have some and they work pretty well. The only things they wonāt do is Hue Sync for matching your tv/ computer, but just put them in a zone where you donāt care about that and they are fine
dotStart
Yup. They're basically just your cheapo "throw them in a corridor" type lights. They should have a little "Hue & Friends" mark on the packaging so do check for that since IKEA now also sells their own hub.
MajorNikon
Even the big name brands that charge higher prices fail predictably at only a fraction of their rated hours
thoushaltnotpass
The difficulty in this tech economy is that price is not anymore an indicator of build quality, we need other indicators like tests and experts opening the device to give their opinion. Recently my Cellestron battery pack (premium telescope brand) failed and I opened it. The electronics was very poor quality, with solder bridges everywhere. There was no way to know without spending 200ā¬ for one and opening it.
Smidge204
Yeah I dunno man... I write the install dates on the bulbs and the ones I replaced most recently were dated 2016 and get used 8+ hours a day. Either you're buying garbage and lying about it or maybe you're using an enclosed fixture with a bulb that's not rated for that (many are not - it matters)
MajorNikon
And maybe you donāt live in Texas where the heat kills LED bulbs regardless of whether they are in open fixtures? Maybe you donāt have inconsistent power that destroys small DC converters? So yeah, you ādonno manā. Sums it up perfectly.
MySushi
Yeah, bought GE and they still failed. We used to pay 25Ā¢ per incandescent bulb and many of those lasted longer in decent quality table lamps, whereas the $6 LEDs just fail in half a year or less, unless you are buying and installing fresh recessed lamp holders for them
phobosorbust
counterpoint: I've had one LED bulb that failed in less than two years. The rest have lasted at least five, with examples over a decade old at this point. Either there's some kind of environmental issue involved or the universe is choosing to torment you in this peculiar fashion.
LeoGrun19401
I have the cheapest ones from Amazon and honestly they are still going strong five years without needing to be changed. One light we keep constantly on (on account of the cat and stairs) and I have not had to change anything.
HandoB4Javert
"Stair Cat Light" is a thing in automation
MoopsyLD
how old is your house? electrical wiring is also a big issue and is a big part of the reason they go out fast
WuProgress
To be fair, having it on all the time is a lot less stressing than turning it on and off daily. Just a reminder that Centennial Light at Livermore-Pleasanton Fire Department in California is still lit.
kirmokum
here's what a lot of people don't understand about a lot of cheap products: it's not that they *can't last a long time or be a quality product, it's that they don't test them and they could last forever or they could set your house on fire.
LeoGrun19401
That said I've bought supposedly premium products from reputable brands that were clearly not tested and support was just like "yeah it's cheaper to replace the faulty ones if people bother to complain than test every one up front" so, yeah there's truth there.
HandoB4Javert
PYREX vs pyrex.
In Europe, Africa, and the Middle East, a variation of the PYREX (all uppercase) trademark is licensed by International Cookware for bakeware that has been made of numerous materials including borosilicate and sodaālime glass, stoneware, metal, plus vitroceramic cookware.
The pyrex (all lowercase, introduced in 1975) trademark is now used for kitchenware sold in the United States, South America, and Asia. Not even close to original quality.
LeoGrun19401
While it's true Pyrex is no longer the same tempered glass as before the fact that you can use the logo to tell is actually not true due to inconsistent branding over the years. However that's not an issue of quality, the new Pyrex is a wholly different product. However, it's a big problem that they never really advertised that and the new product can not be used in the same ways.
RetrogradeLlama
Show me some independent lab tests and Iāll believe you.
Smidge204
Okay cool; https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959652619310479 25K hours (Incandescent bulbs; 1K-2K hours). Now show me the independent lab tests that "LED Lights Die Quickly" and we can compare and contrast!
RetrogradeLlama
Data from 2017 is hardly relevant today in the fast-changing world of LED's. Most of the discount brands we see today weren't even around them. Products and manufacturing have changed. Not necessarily for the better, but they are different.
Smidge204
"Show me the science! No, not like that..." okay then, still waiting for your study *shrug*