clemdarkstarzero
18068
500
22
Apr 10, 2026 6:17 PM
clemdarkstarzero
18068
500
22
BluePaladin42
Just remember, voting for harm reduction doesn’t mean you can’t also criticize the less bad option for not doing more. Just, you know, don’t support the worse option just because the other option isn’t great.
candythesquirrel
Ah yes, picking between two flavors of capitalism.
relsky
I've used this argument before. The people I used it on then turned around and used it to justify voting for drumpf. "Yeah he's enriching himself, but we can't have the libruls and their SoCiAlIsM!1!!
petonious
You better make that checkers America is too stupid.
woozle
https://imgur.com/UzLxL08
azazyel
They're buses not taxis. You want the one that will get you the closest to your destination
TheFullLength
No need to overcomplicate it.
"Yes, this one."
MeestowKitty
But at the same time, if we keep making bad moves, we get outmaneuvered and end up with Trump. The constant refrain of "voting is like taking a bus" led the Overton Window to be moved further and further Right, and the Dem candidates to become more and more Conservative.
michaelfire
Corruption. Binary party system cannot help but downward spiral to weakest state. Maths. "The lesser of two evils is still evil." also absolutely certainty of corruption to outside parties who corrupt, play both sides of the bet against each other, called "hedging". https://www.fairobserver.com/politics/the-colossal-corruption-of-the-two-party-sys-system/">https://www.fairobserve">tem/">-system/">https://www.fairobserver.com/politics/the-colossal-corruption-of-the-two-party-system/ https://virginiapolitics.org/online/2024/4/22/two-party-system-the-lesser-of-two-evils-is-still-evil https://users.ox.ac.uk/~schleite/paper1.pdf
RewindMyVHS
I can’t remember who said but it was something along the lines of “You don’t have to take him to the prom and fuck him, you just have to vote for him”
Beasag
why should I vote for him? Seriously. ELI5
They completely bungled everything during the Biden administration.
They have continued to support Trump during the last 15 months.
MidnaDS
This makes sense. Humans are famously terrible at playing Chess.
raberscoob
I kindof get this sentiment in a country like Norway for example where the country bends over backwards to make it easy for you to vote. But with all the voter disinfranchisement in the US combined with the fact that harvard did a study that found a 0% correlation between the will of the people and what lawmakers do.... not voting in America is about as effective as voting.
cisgenderedwhitemale
Its public transportation. Get on the bus that's going to take you closest to where you want to end up.
ghostofGracchusBabeuf
Or you could just join a cult, commit some light voter fraud, and buy tons of merch from some weird TV show actor.
acetothermus
MAGAt's would be pissed if they could understand that.
JaceCameron
How could they own the libs if they could understand things?
acetothermus
Touche.
manhands
A chess move on a pre-prepared board and you’re only allowed to move one piece. Still, though, you can really fuck up that move.
ThatuldoPig
Except, they're both willing to sacrifice the pawns and lie about what the strategy is. This and the bus not a taxi are horse shit analogies.
nimeton0
JadeNB1729
Voting is just like driving, if you do it badly you'll probably kill or injure people.
SerialChickenLover
Voting for R will send you flying right sideways into a school bus and voting D will send you flying right sideways into a school bus but you’ll hit the brakes a little before impact
Sonicschilidogs
Dumbass.
SerialChickenLover
There is no “left wing” movement in the United States. The Democrats are nearly the same as Bush-era conservatives. EVERYTHING is moving to the right, and has been for decades. Bernie Sanders would be considered a centrist in most of Europe.
M4UsedRollout
Counterpoint: voting in a do-nothing status-quo-warrior Democrat like Newsom could do more harm in the long run.
If we convince the younger voters to come out and knock on doors to get Democrats elected, and they succeed, and the Democrats they elect squander the next 4 years failing to prosecute the Trump Crime family, failing to raise the minimum wage, failing to fix anything the GOP broke, then these voters would walk away and never come back.
The GOP would be back in power for decades.
Beasag
Once upon a time I believed that. I no longer do.
The democrats can't even manage to agree to stop the war or sanction Israel.
But I'm supposed to 'vote blue no matter who'?
jasondeslin
Fuck off Nazi bot.
Shove your Republican propaganda all the way up your ass.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
This guy gets it. How about Democratic leaders take responsibility for their spinelessness, rather than blame people for not supporting their not-quite-as-shitty candidates?
KingKrabvoldIV
And that one issue is the only one that exists, right? Way to completely miss the point.
Nonada
I'm under the assumption that Chuck Schumer voted for Cuomo instead of Mamdani which has made me refuse to say vote blue no matter who anymore.
seenunseen
Some are playing chess, most are playing checkers. Too many are playing Sorry!
Omicron416
And way too many aren't playing at all.
curialis
tic-tac-toe
TheEvenPrez
Any politician that says they can give you everything you want is bold faced lying.
If you can't understand that you are fundamentally unprepared for the civic duty of democratic participation.
TheEvenPrez
SO, to be clear Imgur, you WANT people who vote when they believe a politician that promises the moon? You're alright with that, despite our current predicaments?
Mirrormancer
Hell I got downvoted because I both recommended peaceful solutions while also acknowledging that the regime is actively foreclosing all peaceful solutions and will soon leave only nonpeaceful avenues for solving the problem. Both peaceful, yet realistic, but apparently Imgur either wants blood as the only solution OR people don't like the reality check that the peaceful doors are fast closing on them.
MarcusAWolf
Vote shaming doesn't work
M4UsedRollout
Very true, but it’s the only strategy the Democrats have.
Anything else and they’d have to admit their strategy of abandoning their principles to try to appeal exclusively to Never-Trump Republicans (all 12 of them!) is a failure.
They’re already talking about letting Trans people swing in the wind so they can reach further right.
They refuse to listen to their base and demand that the base votes for them anyway because the Republicans are even worse.
It costs them elections time after time.
KingKrabvoldIV
It’s not shaming, it’s a reality check. If you feel shamed find some introspection.
MarcusAWolf
English
Noun
vote shaming (uncountable)
The practice of shaming people for voting for a particular candidate, or for not voting at all.
Ein0r
Chess is too difficult for many.
Osiricus
I've never understood people that put bumper sticker of other people's names on their cars. They aren't a rock band.
HamSlamwich
Chess? The American 2 party system?
Its checkers man. You can pick from 2 moves. The only time you're down to 2 choices in Chess is when the game is almost over and you're just trying to stay alive for a few...turns...ok there it is. Made myself sad.
damogen
"Tell me that you don't vote in primaries AND that you don't play chess without telling me"
Illinifan88
This is bullshit. You're not picking from 2 if you vote in the primary.
And just voting is like being a pawn. It's a small gesture but can have bigger effects that may be hard to recognize. If you want to make a bigger impact, be a rook or a knight, knock on doors, make calls. Or be the King/Queen and go run for yourself.
Kappa043
Lmao, the primary isn't an election. It's a selection. And the winner has already been picked by the DNC/RNC ahead of time.
Illinifan88
Tell that to Janet Mills. Schumer is supporting her and she's getting her ass beat.
Being an "established" candidate has benefits. Name rec. Established campaign structure. Connections. But it is not a guarantee of success. Get someone like Graham Platner who has the right message and is willing to work their ass off and an outsider can win.
OnyxTurret
I wouldn't even say checkers. It's straight up tic-tac-toe just trying to stop awful people from winning.
alcaray
America has lots more parties than two. Only two stay consistently popular, though.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
But if you vote for a third party, two-party ass-hats will rail you for supporting the opposing candidate, simply for not voting against them. The best the two-party system can muster is that you don't vote for anyone. You vote against the candidate you like least.
alcaray
How would three or more equally popular parties satisfy your objection?
TheShogunOfSarcasm
That question has nothing to do with the price of tea in China, or anything else. I am simply pointing out that the two-party system is fundamentally flawed. It's proponents structure the argument as a false dichotomy: either you vote for Candidate B, or you're supporting Candidate A. That is simply NOT the case. The onus is NOT on us to vote against a candidate, we should be voting FOR candidates.
alcaray
I think I understand your objection. But I honestly do not see how more parties would solve it rather than multiply it. It's clear that you don't want to pursue this inquiry. So have a great life.
ShoopDeDoop
Not voting for awful candidates is also a chess move for the world you want to live in.
SisyphusRollin
Exactly! Everyone who abstained from the 2024 election voted for Kamala and Trump, they said "I don't care which one wins" and now they're directly accountable for the actions of Trump and company. I mean, they didn't care who won. They didn't do anything at all to effect the outcome, they just surrendered before it began. Correct, its a cowardly chess move that leads to horrible outcomes.
Beasag
I voted for Hilary and I voted for Kamala. I voted for Angus King. I voted against Susan Collins. I reluctantly voted for Biden.
I haven't missed an election in 45 years. What has it gotten me?
Politicians that care more about making AIPAC happy than their own constituents. Politicians that say 'There is no use in fighting Trump'. Politicians that say "Well we will have to think about this war in Iran"
KingKrabvoldIV
It’s not. Sitting out isn’t a move, you’re just spectating while someone else moves pieces and skips your turn.
Clockworkdancerobot
If that world is a neo-fascist hellhole...
ButtBot9900
How's that working out for you so far?
ShoopDeDoop
Pretty great. I can honestly say that I have never voted for anyone who has been an awful choice.
meme2zombie
And how's that working out for you? Never voting to stop people who are worse choices?
ShoopDeDoop
Did your vote stop Donald Trump from being elected twice?
KingKrabvoldIV
I’m sure Gaza is doing better under Trump! Looooser.
anthropogenicentropy
It's amazing that their lesser evil strategy just doesn't get out of the vote
QuitLookinAtMineAim
Protesting by not voting is a chess move...a losing chess move.
ShoopDeDoop
Voting for awful candidates is worse.
SisyphusRollin
If you didn't vote for one of the two who can win in 2024 you voted for both, you said "I don't care which one wins" you actively put your energy into supporting Trump for instance there.
ShoopDeDoop
No, I didn't vote for either. You didn't vote in all the other nation's elections, so does that mean you voted for all of their candidates? Your logic is flawed.
SisyphusRollin
Its X or Y and you have a capability of causing change. If you don't enact that capability, if you choose to abstain, you will still result in getting X or Y but you'll have done nothing to effect the outcome. You'd have decided that X or Y is unimportant, you don't care which one.
SisyphusRollin
If you're an American and you didn't vote for Kamala or Trump you said "I don't care which one wins" thats a fact. Thats how reality works.
QuitLookinAtMineAim
False
ShoopDeDoop
So everyone who voted for Donald Trump made a good move?
QuitLookinAtMineAim
And that's a block
SisyphusRollin
If you didn't vote for Kamala or Trump you said you don't care which one wins. You get that right, that you give support to both by not voting?
thebonesofmyancestors
Too many people are forgetting this. The gatekeeping and purity test requirements for candidates is beginning to worry me. The GOP faithful don't give a fuck. They'll pull that lever for anything with an R next to it. This ain't about perfect, or fucking even good candidates at this point. It's about halfway reasonable candidates to help fight the battle against fascism.
TheHolyFatman
I believe these to be socially engineered by the GOP. They've been manipulating social media for 10 years and I think they have been able to sow discontent about candidates and exploit the purity tests to new heights. The Dems have got to play dirty right back and use social media. We gotta stop showing up to the gunfight with a nothing more than a flimsy stick
SerialChickenLover
We got Trump a second time because a lot of people conflated voting for Kamala as being complicit in genocide, while failing to recognize that they were complicit for the same and so much worse by failing to vote for her.
The winning move was to vote for Kamala. She sucked, but we wouldn’t have all of *gestures* this going on right now.
EntropyEJ
https://media4.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPWE1NzM3M2U1eTlpN2pwdTFhenhnNXQ1OGwzbXFwMHQzY3ZjdHF6dmNlaGQwam5lZiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/Q3Li1BpwTpTfq/200w.webp
M4UsedRollout
It’s the primary. You are supposed to vote for who you like. You are supposed to loudly hate on candidates you don’t. We want to nominate a candidate people won’t have to hold their nose to vote for.
Because if you haven’t noticed in the past 12 years, if Democrats feel like they have to hold their nose to vote, they just stay home.
Weeknieunknowing
Having a pure candidate that you agree with 100% and someone you have to hold your nose for are two very different things, though
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Some level of principles are needed. If all it takes is "better than the other guy," then both sides will progressively get worse.
Scahrossar
They have been doing just that for quite some time.
ImmaCatImmaSexyCat
Exactly. That's why I'm glad Hasan and others on the left are saying they won't support Newsom. If you say you'll accept someone THAT evil so far in advance, then the party has no incentive to aim for anything better. They like that evil shit.
Scahrossar
Liz Cheney was on stage last time while there wasn't a single palestinian voice. That should tell you all you need to know.
Casually
The purity testing is a real problem. I only know a few people that voted for a candidate that they 100% agreed with. These were all people that were voting for themselves, I don't count their spouses as someone that agrees 100%.
WoodORama
Voting is like riding the bus. Not every bus ride gets you right to your front door. But you pick the bus that gets you closest and the rest is up to you.
M4UsedRollout
This analogy sucks because if you’re actually picking buses and none of them go where you want you have the option of not riding at all.
Elections
Don’t
Work
That
Way.
We don’t get to choose the bus we ride. Everyone votes for the bus everyone has to ride. This analogy doesn’t work.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
WHY would we CONTINUE to support a two-system that got Trump elected. TWICE?!?!
LeoFloof
We don’t have to (and shouldn’t) support it, but we do have to participate in it and face the consequences of it when we don’t.
While this is our system, to hold out for a perfect candidate or to protest vote instead of voting for the candidate who *most* aligns with the world you want to live in is reckless and irresponsible.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
....that ZERO Dems have done ANYTHING to really stand up to Trump other than clutch their pearls and write strongly worded denouncements tells you just how spineless the Dems are. They want me to support their candidate, then put out a candidate with a fucking spine.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
I'm not holding out for a "perfect candidate". Neither are most people who didn't support the last Dem candidate. I'll bet if you asked them, they simply don't want to support shitty candidates. Simply being the "less-worse" candidate is not a high bar to clear when the opposition is LITERALLY Nazis. What impetus does the Dem party have to put forward GOOD candidates, when they only ever have to be "not-AS-bad"? I refuse to participate in this farce of a political process. The simple fact....
Beybeykukududu
Real strawman argument here.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
He's right.
jasondeslin
It's dumb fucks like you that got him elected the 1st time.
The 2nd was fraud. He bragged about it. Elon admitted it.
Still, it wouldn't have been possible without cunts like you driving down the vote.
If you're not a secret Nazi agent, you're doing their work for free.
Either way, fuck off.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Right, dipshit. Dems CONTINUOUSLY front shitty candidates, who, while not as bad as Reps, are STILL shitty. And I should support those shitty candidates all to support a system that got Trump elected. Twice. So the problem ISN'T the system that ALLOWED Trump to get elected, twice. It's the people who refuse to support whatever awful candidate the Dems shit out. What if I voted third party? Would I still be a "secret Nazi agent"? You're taking that two-party dick from both ends pretty hard.
jasondeslin
Not voting Dem literally got hundreds of thousand of purple killed between COVID, usaid, ice, Palestine, Ukraine.
Yes cunt, if you didn't vote Dem, you're helping the Nazis, people died, you deserve to be placed against the wall next to them.
I'm a communist anarchist. I swallow my disgust with capitalists and vote Dem because 1, you have to vote the direction to get change, and 2, NOT voting Dem gets people killed.
I hold your ass responsible for the current atrocities.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Lol again. You would blame those individuals that didn't vote Democrat, THAN YOUR OWN PARTY WHICH ALLOWED ALL THE AFOREMENTIONED SHIT TO HAPPEN! WHY WOULD I SUPPORT THOSE COWARDS? WHY SHOULD I BUY INTO A SYSTEM THAT ALLOWED THAT TO HAPPEN IN THE FIRST PLACE??? THE DEMS DID MORE TO HELP TRUMP BY REFUSING TO DO ANYTHING TO STOP HIM! You are getting double-dicked HARD by the two-party system, and instead you're getting pissed at the people who rightfully rebelled against a broken system.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Do you think the difference is between those people holding out for a candidate they 100% agree with. Why should any party front "good" candidates when they only have to be "not-as-awful" as the other guy. The two-party system is BROKEN, and instead of calling out those responsible, you're just shaming everyone who refused to vote for a less-shitty candidate. Why are we FORCED to choose between a douche, and a turd sandwich?
MoltenBerle
Point me to any country with more than two parties who is successfully fielding completely uncompromised candidates.
Even Denmark, probably the closest you can get to an ideal electoral system, has a PM regularly criticized for their insufficient policies.
jasondeslin
When the choices were mostly whether to spend tax money on schools or the military, your both sides bullshit was still stupid, and only made the problem worse.
Now, when it's literally a choice between Nazi genocide, and not Nazi genocide, you're self righteous bullshit is murdering people.
Fuck all the way off and die.
We vote in the world that exists, not your fantasy that would require 1/3rd of the population to spontaneously vanish to be possible to pull off.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Lol You are SOOOOO angry at the people who don't support the system, INSTEAD OF THE SYSTEM THAT ALLOWED NAZI GENOCIDE IN THE FIRST PLACE! Please, pull your head out of your ass.
jasondeslin
You are the system that allowed Nazis dumbass.
The world you want to have would require killing 1/3rd of the population to be able to change.
That's roughly the amount of anti science conservatives. They will NEVER agree with you. The only choices are to outvote them, or kill them.
Your solution is to loudly bitch about the 1/3rd that isn't left enough for you so that the people on the left don't bother to vote against the right.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
LOL The two-party system is what allowed Trump to get elected. Twice. Instead of acknowledging this fact, you've decided to take a move from Trump's playbook and double down on your stupidity and blame people who, rightfully so, refused to buy into a broken system. You LOVE your party SO much, yet when Trump came to power they did, and continue to do nothing. Rather than hold your leaders accountable, you'd rather just blame those smart enough to recognize the two-party system as bullshit.
MikeRInternetTraveler
The two party system IS broken, but it’s also the system we’re currently under. I absolutely agree that it sucks, but it means that you sometimes do have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser evil. The alternative is the greater evil.
I don’t want to get punched in the chest, but if I’m either going to get punched in the chest or kicked in the balls, and there’s no way around one of those two things happening, punch me in the fucking chest.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Sometimes? We only have to hold our nose SOMETIMES??? Okay. So what impetus does the Democratic party have to field DECENT candidates when the only bar they have to clear is "not-quite-as-shitty-as-the-Nazis"? How the fuck are you supposed to get worthy candidates out of such a system? We shouldn't HAVE to EVER get punched, and as long as you dogmatically stick to a two-party system it's guaranteed.
MikeRInternetTraveler
I’m not a Harris fan at all, but for every flaw she has, she would have been better than Trump. And whether I like it or not, one of those two was going to be sworn in on January 2024. That was an undeniable fact when I went into the voting booth. One of those two would be the next President. So, yes, until the system is changed, you vote for the lesser evil.
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Better. Better than a Nazi is NOT a high bar to clear.
DevilsAdvocat
all good points, no disagreement here, but in 2024, when someone who leans left didn't vote while in a swing state, or even a 'leans right' state, who did that help? (it fucking sucks, but you know the answer as well as I do)
we need to get better people, we absolutely do, but, we will never get better people if, by never voting if someone isn't perfect, we allow the overton window to continue rightward (and yes, if we get the people closer to our side elected, we need to hold their feet /cont
DevilsAdvocat
to the fire to push further left)
Scahrossar
This cycle happens constantly. Before the election its "Vote blue no matter who and we'll push them left after the election" and then, if they won, its not the time to start pushing them. The result is a D party thats been in lockstep with the Rs while both of them shift right.
DevilsAdvocat
first off, just an fyi, the general election is just a few months of the, at minimum, two year election cycle... it's the other 1.5-5.5 years that you need to push to make sure the people who you want in office get to that point, while holding those who were elected to the fire, to either do right, or set an example of what we won't vote to get in the election, but, once the election rolls around.. not voting helps the other side.. which is exactly what I was saying earlier..
TheShogunOfSarcasm
So the solution is to shame those people, who had LEGITIMATE reasons for not supporting either major party candidate? What if they legitimately supported a third party? And again, we are NOT waiting for someone who is perfect. We are waiting for a candidate who isn't shitty. Point your ire at Dem leaders who can't stop losing, won't put forward a decent candidate, and refuse to take MEANINGFUL steps to oppose Trump. I'd vote for the first Dem who ACTUALLY had a pair.
DevilsAdvocat
ok, so by the sounds of it, you helped get trump elected, good job, so, to rephrase.. shame on fucking you.. as much as a lot of people on here have rose tinted glasses for kamala, I don't, but, she's a fuckload better than trump.. and the harm she might have caused is sardonically less than what trump has caused already... try to get the right people on the ticket before the primaries, but when the general election rolls around, try to lessen the harm
TheShogunOfSarcasm
LOL You have your head so FIRMLY planted up the ass of the two-party system, your infantile mind can't imagine ANY other alternative. You would rather point your ire at the people who, rightfully do, refuse to buy into a broken system, rather than hold the people YOU voted for accountable. This is Stockholm Syndrome on a whole other level. And if the Dems are SOOOOO great, why have they done, precisely, FUCK-ALL to hold Reps accountable?
DevilsAdvocat
sardonically? sardonically??? where the fucking hell did that word come from? that was supposed to be astronomically.. how the fuck, I'm not even on something with autocorrect