sgtjim
99051
1063
39
I don't know if anyone finds this interesting. I saw a discussion about what "762" or "7.62" is on another post and thought I'd share some of these things I've had since my time in service.
Related to the discussion are #4 and #5. #4 is from an Iraqi AK47, most likely what the people in Ukraine and Russia are using. #5 is from a US 240G machine gun. Both are 7.62mm, but notice the casing on the US version is much larger. The bullets themselves are also different materials.
Then from left to right:
The first two are 9mm 'sim' rounds. The 'bullet' is a bit of colored material that splats on impact inside of a plastic case. These are used for training exercises and hurt like a bitch. You can buy these for yourselves. In training we would replace the upper receiver on our M16's to be able to fire the 9mm round, as well as use a modified magazine to feed them.
#3 is a standard 5.56mm (.223) Nato Ball round used in M16's, M4's, M249's, etc.
#6 is a .50 caliber from a .50BMG. Also used in some aircraft and other various applications. Definitely don't want to be down range of it.
#7 is the projectile from #6. Notice the size of the projectile versus the size of the entire round of any other.
So, yeah there you go.
Here's Lea judging me while I work.
MisterLemons
*Slaps 50BMG* You can fit so many payloads in this.
Dxb105
Copper cased rounds leave a copper residue in the barrel. Best use a proper cleaner to maintain accuracy/reliability.
SlytlyDerangd
Your cat tax is... HEAVY. I feel judged myself. What an evil gem.
henofthewoods
I kind of miss building bullets. Now I live in the city and haven't hunted or handled a gun in YEARS.
AGRIADR
This is highly suspicious! Only Putin's Proctologist has access to his list of suppositories!!!
AbtachaAboma
CAT
ZebraDGR8
9x19 simunition, 5,56 green tip, 7x62x39 AK-47, 7,62x51 nato (Russian counterpart would be the 7,62x54), 12,7x99 apei
qtRaven
.50 BMG. No it doesn't matter where it hits you.
LrrrRulerofThePlanetOmicronPerseiVIII
Sure it does! You might just lose the limb…
alexdranoel
Need a banana for scale, please
stonetemplefox05
In a super edgy alternate timeline we use 9mm for scale.
tyingq
A10 Warthog 30mm caliber round.
JBoyy35772
Well, glad the A10s are on our side
victoryscreech
The 7.62 is particularly efficient.
SnappyCrunch
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/901/520/e7a.gif
ohicanrenamemyprofile
Can you use neff gun bullets for reference?
sonomarco
Banana needed for scale.
Narfwak
Russia and Ukraine don't use the AK47 (more accurately the AKM) anymore, they use the AK74 which fires the 5.45x39 cartridge.
MarkiusFox
#3 5.56x45mm, #4 7.62x39mm, #5 7.62x51mm, #6 12.7x99mm. The # preceding the "x" is the bullet diameter, succeeding # is the case length.
CthuluIsMyHomie
This needed to be higher up the comment list.
pited019
And I would like the #6 Please. To go.
striximperatrix1
"Today we have naming of parts."
Bigemedic
I remember going to my first .50-cal range, and the cadre passing a slug around. That thing would hurt you if thrown by hand.
Like2Fox
Thank you for informative post, but we prefer you don't say "the Ukraine", which is a reference to USSR state and not an independent country
TheAlmightyCabbage
Are you Ukrainian? I have Ukrainian friends that call it this it means 'frontier land' and is part of their culture. Their words not mine.
NerdyPegger
I have Ukrainian heritage; both sides of my family's grandparents came from Ukraine. And they were adamant that there is no "the".
Like2Fox
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/10/01/its-ukraine-not-ukraine-ukrainians-want-you-get-it-right/
TheAlmightyCabbage
So a state propaganda wing wants to change their name to freedom fries? Got it. I will trust the natives. You trust PC media junkets.
Like2Fox
The fuck you talking about.
zylamaquag
The first two are just a product of those gender reveal parties getting more and more intense.
TimMyth
You just made the most compelling argument for having a gender reveal party.
clamdriver
Ha. I though they were roll on underarm protection products.
parabolic000
honestly shooting someone with a training round is less fucked up than actual gender reveal bullshit that causes major wildfires.
TanithRosenbaum
It's even less fucked up than any actual gender reveal stuff, even if it doesn't cause major catastrophies.
parabolic000
Also true. "Let's have a party so everyone can know what genitals my offspring have" is such a weird fucking thing.
NacLac
The green tip means it's armor piercing, just has a hardened core to punch through personnel armor or unarmored vehicles. Don't take those
Gofdunk
SS109
Vyrro
False, m855 is a "penetrator" not AP
TheAlmightyCabbage
Not armor piercing.
TheAlmightyCabbage
You can take these to non-fudd ranges because they are not 'armor piercing' just have improved pen for light materials. Not logs and berms.
MarkiusFox
M855 is not armor piercing, nor was it designed to. Ranges with a steel backstop don't like them because they increase wear on the backstop.
MarkiusFox
The steel penetrator itself is about half of the core, the rest being lead. The M995 "black tip" is armor piercing with a tungsten core.
NacLac
Thank you for the explanation. I only knew about the green tip and it was introduced to me as a pentrator, so I assumed light armor.
NacLac
To a firing range, you'll be kicked out in short order
TheAlmightyCabbage
My DNR range has no such restrictions. At all. YOUR fuddsy gun club range might be fuddsy but others are cool.
NacLac
Right. Indoor ranges are notorious for being fuddy and rejecting your 50 cal firing tracer rounds. Grow up
Ijustsigneduptoupvotethis
@op just to point out there is a difference between the civilian .223 and .308 vs the nato 5.56 and 7.62. The nato casing have a slightly /1
Ijustsigneduptoupvotethis
Longer neck which allows a bit more powder that gives it a bit more chamber pressure of 1000psi+ when firing. There is a danger mixing them
AnonymousFlyingSquirrel
This is true, but also depends on what the gun is chambered in. A .223 rem should not shoot 5.56 NATO but a .223 wylde is made to shoot both
LrrrRulerofThePlanetOmicronPerseiVIII
You can use .223 in a 5.56 no problem, just not the other way around
TheWarHymn
The civilian .308 is actually proofed to higher pressure than the military 7.62x51. Don't use hot .308 loads in a 7.62x51 rifle.
Ijustsigneduptoupvotethis
Dis not know that, I only read up about it, I don't have any practical experience with it.
RoutemasterFlash
Wouldn't the text have been better as a series of... (•_•) ( •_•)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■) ...bullet points?
moijo
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
bagoffishstix
WolfKnifeLaserBacon
Top comment everyone. This is it.
magila
Shoul idnclude a 30mm cannon round from an A-10. It's as big as your arm. 6000 per minute. Brrrrttttt.
sgtjim
Unfortunately i dont have one of those in my possession. Similarly i don't have any 155's /a/VQ7b4ju
freshthrowaway1138
I would like to see the 30mm from the Apache next to the 30mm from the A-10. But not up close since the A-10 uses poisonous DU rounds.
JBoyy35772
Lmao why the poison when you’re literally splitting the enemy in half? -Well, we want them like, super dead. Extra super dead. Dead. Yes
freshthrowaway1138
Not to mention we want to salt the Earth, like the Romans of old, so that all will remember this battle and continue to die horribly.
JBoyy35772
Ah man didn’t even think of that, that’s so true xP
JBoyy35772
We really take after the Romans so much with our military units and tactics so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised haha
onlyhalfghost
the reason is the material properties of uranium metal, which ignites on contact with air and is incredibly dense, are good for AP ammo
onlyhalfghost
unfortunately, uranium is also a reactive heavy metal, so it's toxic. (The isotopes used in ammo are not radioactive.)
JBoyy35772
Daamn I didn’t know the igniting in air part that’s cool. Of course, not if you’re the one on the business end of the cannon
Toffeeaccident
Or within about 15 meters from the target. The A-10 has the friendly fire high score.
smittyspawnshop
Those sim rounds are sooo painful. For an extra kick they made 5.56 versions. I've had to pull one of those out of my thigh.
smittyspawnshop
Fun fact. They seldom break and leave paint if it is below 32 degrees.
Adsma2002
They learned trainees were willing to take a 9mm training round in order to win. 5.56 made you actually think about cover
smittyspawnshop
Our 1st Sgt saw our moral dropping while training with these. So his answer was to have western style duels where we took 15 paces then turn
smittyspawnshop
And shoot. 1st Sgt went first against our squad sharpshooter. The lined up took their paces and fired about the same time.
smittyspawnshop
Top missed, sharpshooter didn't. Placed it on the bridge of his nose right above the mask but under the goggles.
smittyspawnshop
To this day Top has a distinct cross scar on the bridge of his nose. The round never ruptured.
TheAlmightyCabbage
#3 is a green tip/steel core penetrator, not 'ball'. No idea if all of NATO is issued it? Think not. NOT armor piercing.
ZebraDGR8
Some use the SS-109
TheAlmightyCabbage
But not 'standard' as post states. Which is why I said not standard or all of NATO is issued it. Ty
TheAlmightyCabbage
Ball in military designation just means non-frangible. Standard ball would have no visual indicators. Steel core is green tip.
MoeMoep
The 7.62x39 is used in the AK-47, the Russians are probably using modern rifles which also have a smaller calibre 5.45x?? Which has ...
bikergeek6249
AK-74, 5.45x39
th3guy
Define “modern” because the rest of their shit definitely ain’t.
LeifTheUnlucky
AK12s, PKPs, a lot of AK100s series probably. But most of the fresh trainees/conscripts are probably using modernized '74s.
MoeMoep
Yeah, I don't know exactly, but the AK-47 has been around since ... '47.. even in a'stan I saw many a 74, so I guess at least those.
LeifTheUnlucky
1/ AK-47 is actually a misnomer. It was only ever referred to as such in testing documents in 1946-7. After being officially adopted, it
LeifTheUnlucky
2/ was only referred to as an AK. Then, when the platform was updated a few years later, those became AKMs which are what we see abroad in
MoeMoep
Similar performance to the "NATO" 5.56x45. the first number is the diameter of the bullet, the second is the length of bullet +casing.
thekeyofe
Yes, the Russians are most likely using AK-74's in 5.45x39. The AN-94 also uses the same ammo, but it wasn't adopted for widespread use.
MarkiusFox
The second is just the case length. If it was overall length, 5.56 would indicate 57mm, not 45mm.
bigmuffin1
Plus you can seat bullets at different depths so OAL can vary, there's a "safe/allowed" range by SAAMI
MoeMoep
Ok, want really sure about that one. Important message: the greater the number the more space for gunpowder the greater the oompf.
MrOsmo
Not necessarily. A lighter bullet traveling significantly faster can match or exceed the ft.lb of a heavier bullet. This is why we end up
MrOsmo
Having the great caliber debates. 9mm vs 45. Also why theres no standard ammo for every military.
bigmuffin1
The 5.45 is a Nasty SOB, it tumbles after X yards and creates some terrible wounds
parabolic000
that's...not how bullets work. They tumble after hitting enough resistance. Rifling exists to keep them flying straight. Guns don't --
bigmuffin1
https://images.app.goo.gl/FgzRotdTgcHozXq78
parabolic000
From your link: Keyholing is a sign that the bullets are not being stabilized properly
bigmuffin1
An imbalanced very long and thin projectile will tumble, not all bullets are perfect. Google AK74 keyhole and educate yourself
parabolic000
fire bullets that after X amount of distance just start tumbling like a Bethesda physics glitch. Not even counting the ways that would be--
parabolic000
difficult to engineer, what would be the purpose of a round slowing down and becoming inaccurate on purpose?
LeifTheUnlucky
Incorrect, they're designed to tumble after meeting resistance.
bigmuffin1
If you've never shot an AK74 then you have no idea. They rounds rumble at about 40 yards in most cases.
LeifTheUnlucky
1” 4 round grouping at 50yds
bigmuffin1
https://images.app.goo.gl/FgzRotdTgcHozXq78
LeifTheUnlucky
Here's photos from an AR keyholing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Firearms/comments/bd9xv8/55gr_keyholing_in_a_18_twist/
LeifTheUnlucky
Keyholing, is caused by incorrect crowning or a nonconcentric muzzle device banging into the bullet as it leaves the muzzle.
LeifTheUnlucky
HAHAHA, that's a barrel failure known as keyholing. It's common in "gunsmiths" who didn't know what they're doing. Source: I have an ak74.
bigmuffin1
Don't forget to mention that almost all Russian calibers, spare the 5.45x39, are "7.62" or .30cal. The 7.62x25 tokarev, the 9x18 Makarov 1/2
Trunkmonkay
9mm is not 30 cal.
bigmuffin1
.365 is fairly .30 cal.
Trunkmonkay
No, it is not. 9mm is 38 caliber. Caliber is a measurement of land to land of a rifled barrel, not the diameter of a bullet.
Trunkmonkay
Caliber is a specific measurement because it has to be, there's no "fairly close". It either is or it isn't. Being wrong is dangerous.
ExTechOp
4 is also quite familiar to Finns, as our RK-62 (based on AK-47) uses the same ammo.
Haemaelaeinen
RK-95 too! One important thing to note is that those can use standard Russian AK magazines so getting ammo during war is easy...
genepoolboy
And pystykorva uses #5... well.. probably the pictured is 7.62x54 russian and not 7.62x53 finnish.
Fedotia
I aint ammosexual, but 9mm sounds bigger than 7.62mm
plutonium
Bigger projectile diameter, yes. Rifle rounds pack a whole lot more punch than pistol rounds, however.
CapatinApathy
It is. By 1.38mm in fact.
GloveFullaVaseline
Lol
BobHubert
By diameter yes, but it’s the difference between a (relatively) slow moving round and a fast moving round. Pistol vs rifle too
MrMattster
Larger calibre, yes. But a pistol round like the 9x19mm or 9x18mm is shorter, slower, and less massive than a Rifle round like 7.62x39mm
Fedotia
Yup, but it's definitely not a 7.62
boondoggle2025
Energy behind it depends on the amount of powder pushing it.
sgtjim
Imagine a call of duty game where you couldn't pick up your enemies ammo because it wouldn't fit your barrel
HypersonicHero
Aren't the Russians using a 556 or similar round nowadays?
deject3000
They use 5.45x39mm. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45×39mm
ToxicSnowman
Escape from Tarkov nails this feeling. Didn't bring enough ammo, better pray that you find something that is the right caliber
deject3000
I died once because I put some .366 bullets in my 7.62x39mm AK magazine and misfired lol. Won’t make that mistake again.
Xanthx
My favorite thing to do is drop a .366 Geska into the chamber of every AK-47 variant on scav and player bodies, i always have 10 in my gamma
butthurtnevergetsbetter
Pretty much why every bloc has its own ammo. Not because ammo is so high tech, but because they don't want to supply the enemy.
byohzzrd
Or would fit, blow up in the gun and render it inoperable.
MrOsmo
Warzone does kind of do this.
ThatsMySecretCapImAlwaysHorny
I know soviet artillery and mortar rounds are 2mm larger than NATO so they can use captured NATO rounds, are these the same idea?
GWMG
I have a feeling they only had the one size die. Pistol? 30cal. Rifle? 30cal. MG? You guessed it comrade, 30cal
CompletelyUniqueUsername
It was originally so they could use rejected rifle barrels to shorten into revolver, pistol, and, smg barrels.
bigmuffin1
7.62x39, 7.62x54R
LariCheltsy
Mmmm Nugget food
bigmuffin1
It keeps the ammunition machining cost low
coothlesscthulhu
7.62×38mmR - Nifty little revolver.
bigmuffin1
Yes! Left that out. Gas sealed chamber on a revolver!
coothlesscthulhu
I bought one ~15 years ago, think I've only put 20 or so rounds through it. Neat little revolver though.
RedIronCrown
I am curious how you feel 9x18 Makarov is 30 caliber.
bigmuffin1
I thought about that after I posted...
bwatts264
Well its a .30ish caliber 9 mm is .355 in diameter. For anyone wondering andthing after the x is the length of the brass
Krembananen
.30 is 7.62 though, isn't it? Can a firearm create the needed pressure with that gap?
bwatts264
.30 cal in the US. 7.62 =.308 in the rest of the world 7.62 is = .311 on the inches scale. When it comes to ammo never substitute.1/2
Gibleteousjack
Majority of rifle cartridges are 7.62 and most pistol rounds are 9mm/.357. I use a heavy cast .357 to reload my 9x19.
DerpMeister
Majority of which rifles? The Armed Forces of Ukraine use the AK-74 as standard issue rifle, which uses 5.45×39mm. Ukraine started to
DerpMeister
produces a bullpup version of the AK-74 called Vepr, which uses 5.45×39mm, too. Not many of those have been issued yet, though.
seitanicverses
Sorry if a dumb question: so are 9 mm pistols firing a larger projectile than most rifles? Seems surprising.
Mechman13
Larger heavier bullets, but lower pressure in the cartridge and lower muzzle velocity
fortunamatata
Larger in diameter, yes, but lighter and shorter. Standard 9mm ball ammo is 115 grains (weight of projectile) whereas 7.62x51 NATO is 392 gr
xthexblackxsheepx
I haven’t seen that weight in any reloading manuals :0
fortunamatata
I was wrong, I think the source I grabbed quickly was giving the whole cartridge weight
CakeShapedPie
7.62 nato ball is usually 147gr or 150gr. Heavy ball is 180gr.
fortunamatata
I couldn't remember off the top of my head, and looking again, I think that source was gibing the whole cartridge weight
Gibleteousjack
The Makarov is an odd one. My P64 uses it. You cut a mm off a regular 9x19 and flare it out for .365 cast bullets.
Gibleteousjack
I read that it was developed so the west couldn't capture and use their variant in their guns, but they could still fire captured 9x19.
bigmuffin1
Yeah.
ReredrumLadicimohAtoN
Can't find anything on that one. Sounds interesting but I cannot find a source confirming
Gibleteousjack
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/9%C3%9718mm_Makarov It is referenced here due to not wanting NATO counties to use their ammo.
Gibleteousjack
I'm not certain on the actual source, but I can guarantee cramming a .365 bullet into a pistol designed for .357 is going to ruin your day.