fozymandias
65564
1091
38
Sep 22, 2023 4:56 PM
fozymandias
65564
1091
38
AnOceanOfStars
Millions of people don't care about the blatant fact that the magic guy in the sky they believe into has given them no sign of his existence, for example.
TheOnlyPtylerdactyl
My favorite was on reddit when some guy all-caps yelled at me during a stupid argument, "I'M NOT PROJECTING, YOU'RE PROJECTING"
EverNotRelevant
That's called the Backfire Effect! https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/backfire
unclesporky
Never forget that this tweet was replied to by someone presenting a study that the backfire effect is rarer than once thought, and when faced with this new information, cafernblue did in fact change their mind. :) eb.archive.org/web/20220211154309/https://twitter.com/cafernblue/status/1204574744701526016">https://web.archive.org/web/20220211154309/https://twitter.com/cafernblue/status/1204574744701526016 The study linked: https://fullfact.org/blog/2019/mar/does-backfire-effect-exist/
danx
it is on the Internet so it must be true, they aren't allowed to post anything false or they will get sued
DysfaKingeye
Facts are simple and facts are straight Facts are lazy and facts are late Facts all come with points of view Facts don't do what I want them to Facts just twist the truth around Facts are living turned inside out Facts are getting the best of them Facts are nothing on the face of things
igetit41
You can’t use logic to dislodge an idea that didn’t use logic to get stuck.
Sebastopol140
kinarism
#1 id love to see those studies.
VioletCatastrophe
Facts may not immediately sway people, but they can be seeds of doubt that bloom later. Nobody is changing their mind in a heated discussion. They change their minds in a moment of quiet introspection months later. Unless the matter wasn't emotionally relevant to them, in which case the only thing at play would be facts, and of course they work.
IBroughtASpareDrainpipe
What were the two sources?
VDarksteel
Just don't put too much stock into social media interactions.
NightOwlRally
"The Truth has no defense against a fool determined to believe a lie." - Mark Twain I believe
mickeyc33
Minds made up without evidence won’t be changed with it.
FlaminkoFactor
I generally see it as a sign of strength when someone, upon being presented with compelling evidence, agrees to change their views on something. But I also truly wish that people had more education in critical thinking, basic polling/stats, research design, and fact-checking skills. All are highly important 21st century skills and there's so much garbage being peddled on social media and the internetz.
dixxienormus
I don't believe it!
ridureyu
This is why it’s not worth your time to argue with them. Just silence them.
rubypilgrim
My boomer neighbor is not speaking to me because I told her the job market isn't like when we were young. I presented three easily verified facts - but she won't use google, she refuses to call her grandson to confirm and she can't drive, nor will she allow me to drive her to meet a friend who's a recruiter. I'm a boomer too. I'm kinda wondering what's wrong with me. Can young people these days pay for a college education with a part time job? Can they get a good paying job with that education?-
rubypilgrim
and can they save enough on an average income to have a down payment for a "starter" home in 3-4 years? She still thinks you can get a "starter" home in a good area for around $25k. And can they earn enough on an average income to save for retirement and still take vacations, buy a car and raise a family? She thinks Elon Musk is smart, and that he has earned all his money - with no clue how much he has or what he does or says. I'm a dodo and I know it - but ffs if I'm wrong I want to know.
JerzeeTomato
Confirmation Bias... it's a thing.
AirSonic
A lifetime of experience cannot be swayed by a couple of studies. Sometimes that experience is legitimate qualification, and sometimes it's not.
StSword1
“Do not correct a fool, or he will hate you; correct a wise man, and he will appreciate you.”
PrincessFister
Facts sway the intelligent that are also open to change. No one else
asanaustralianwhyareyourpostsupsidedown
But what can they do? Either argue against themselves by not changing their mind or prove the facts wrong by changing their mind?
RealScienceMan
It's not consistent or even super likely, but it's also pretty much the only thing that works. Being an asshole makes it worse, and it will make people who might agree with you disagree with you because you're an asshole.
InfocalypseRising
Humans overwhelmingly prefer confidence to competence. It's why every boss you've ever had is a clueless dipshit who thinks he's a god.
jediknightswhosayni
Sorry, but I prefer to think of my boss as an absolute shit-knob.
CommodusLeitdorf
You'd be surprised what you can get away with if you just sound forceful and confident.
oilyanaldischarge
I've had some that defied the imagination! Like the one who signed off on a contract proposal, and when it was accepted he claimed he never signed it. I remember that fight because voices were raised. I said, if you really think I would forge your signature you should fire me right now! Glass wallls, everybody heard it. My fellow ae's had warned me about his habit of denying signing stuff they negotiated. Ha!
ispendtomuchtimehere
truthier words were never said
PineappleLoopsBroether
Yes they have :P
JackedUpGinger
I have facts
ispendtomuchtimehere
facts go back up yous asks
Apeofdeath
I'm wrong on a regular basis, but I love learning new stuff, so bring it
DSREX
Always be learning, question the sources, learn from your mistakes, learn from the mistakes of others. If you are the smartest person in the room, you are in the wrong room. Those people have nothing to teach you. Challenge authority, take nothing at face value. list is still a work in progress.
kiddk00l
DiracsDelta
I like you.
Apeofdeath
Being wrong can be fun, when I learned that they moon orbits west to east taking 27.3 days to complete one orbit, but earth does a full rotate in almost 24 hours, to us it looks like the moon is moving east to west. That was a good day
zHurk777
The M4 Sherman tanks had a terrible loss rate during WW2, but somehow their crew death rate is low.
sffmunkee
I’m guessing they failed early enough and not catastrophically, enabling the crews to evacuate?
Felrian
It's like how imgur is loaded with reasonable progressive posts but then a false flag anti vegan meme from lick 4chan or something goes right to the front page. Imgur has a giant blind spot for it's own bullshit.
Shovi
Stop thinking imgur is a hive mind, it's not, it's full of people with different opinions.
Felrian
I didn't say that. Imgur is shorthand for the seeming majority front page and new post up voters. There's a sizable population of insecure meat eaters on imgur that will jump on obviously made up anecdotes about vegans being pretentious because that makes them feel more secure. And I am not saying there are no pretentious vegans.
Felrian
I'm not even vegan
slaitch
Facts sway some people, sometimes.
Merdock
It seems to me and my experience, it not only requires the right person saying the right thing, but that different people making the same argument also helps. So for example, I might be able to do a better job convincing person A instead of person B, and someone else might have a better job convincing person B of the same thing but not so well with person A. It takes facts yes, but charisma and the right interpersonal communication relationship. It's complicated is my short answer.
BellsTheorem
Facts sway people with critical thinking skills who actively apply them.
HandoB4Javert
not holding my breath any more on that one
unclesporky
Context always left out of this famous tweet is that it was replied to by someone presenting a study that the backfire effect is rarer than once thought, and when faced with this new information, cafernblue did in fact change their mind. :) web.archive.org/web/20220211154309/https://twitter.com/cafernblue/status/1204574744701526016">https://web.archive.org/web/20220211154309/https://twitter.com/cafernblue/status/1204574744701526016 The study linked: https://fullfact.org/blog/2019/mar/does-backfire-effect-exist/
HawkmanXLII
Too many people find it difficult or impossible to accept they may be wrong. Especially when it conflicts with their bigoted perspective.
RandAIFlagg
What I like to say is I'd rather be correct than right.
BellsTheorem
Admitting to yourself that you are wrong is a painful process that can get easier if you acclimate yourself to it. It isn't always bigotry, but it is usually some form of bias they are holding on to.
Cthulhuonabike
It really depends on their emotional attachment to the particular subject you are trying to change their minds about. Things like political affiliations can become very ingrained into their personality, so it would be too dramatic to just change suddenly
NinjaCongo
That, and the level of intellectual integrity.
InfocalypseRising
When this happens to me it’s not even that I’m unwilling to change my mind, it’s that I know if I admit my previous position was wrong the other person will gloat and be an asshole about it because all they ever cared about in the first place was “winning”
Rogahar
Ah yes, the "you're right, but you're being a dick about it" route. I've taken that one myself before. I'll update my views and opinions appropriately, but not tell them, just so I can forego the smug gloating lol
Cthulhuonabike
Sometimes you just have to swallow your pride no matter how big a pill it may be. Gloating falls flat when you show genuine humility and growth
zanaria
Facts are useless if the person refuses to believe them.
bitemark
Can't logic someone out of a place when they didn't use logic to get there
marsgoose
I refuse to believe that.
shehulkWhitt
I don’t understand how you can’t ‘believe’ a fact. It’s a fact! There is nothing to disprove or believe, it’s a fact.
Somanyquestions
Cognitive dissonance. People will invent reasons why your fact isn't valid to protect their ego.
DiracsDelta
One caveat. I’ve certainly encountered factual information that has been oversimplified, over-applied, or simply stated badly, or supported by flawed data. Doesn’t change the fact, but how you communicate and prove it matters.
cazaron
In a lot of cases facts don't tell the whole story, or the conclusion can be wrong. Of course, the kind of people we're talking about aren't drawing good conclusions anyway, but... don't believe every fact you hear. Well, believe the fact, but try to think about what those facts mean, not just the conclusion you're being told to believe.
aeolous16
Technically yes, but you can believe or disbelieve the assertion that a presented statement is actually a fact, as opposed to it being incorrect information that someone is simply claiming to be a fact. It's not "that's a fact but I don't believe in it", it's "you're lying to me" or "you are misinformed" or "your information is incomplete/missing something". And if you think any of those things, any further supporting proof or evidence is automatically suspect as well.
theSCUZZle
It’s because they are experiencing a form a brainwashing. We all are. But some people already had zero critical thinking skills. My liberal algorithm has lied to me. But the difference is that I can type out that it happened and grow from it.
sfrinlan
I've come to feel like critical reasoning skills are a gradient, but that most people seem to be relatively low on that gradient. Importantly, I don't have any studies to back this up, so huge grain of salt on my opinion there.
TerrorGuy58
I work in aviation. I have a flat-earther coworker. Boggles my mind.
DraydanGuitar
How the fuck ?!
Apapaia
How? How is he in aviation? And how is he still working?
thotterpop
The job description was so vague... they may be a farmer that does their own crop dusting, or they work in making airplane parts, or loading luggage...
Shaodyn
Imagine if that could be done with math. You say something like "2+2=4" and someone goes, "No, I don't believe that. I think it's actually 5."
Shaodyn
They'd get laughed at so hard. And yet, when people do it with, random example, the shape of the planet, people just go "Everyone is entitled to their opinion."
Shaodyn
Thing is, when your opinion is based on wrong information, we don't have to respect it.