cynicalpsionic
376708
11087
242
Nov 28, 2017 12:36 PM
cynicalpsionic
376708
11087
242
Frogapus
But on the other hand, Key and Peele https://youtu.be/qc_F0zP9usU
CelticScribe
Even with the perceived rape overtones dismantled, the argument of not needing another cover of this song is still valid on its own.
CyborgScribe
Although I disagree with OP and his random tumblr armchair historian that the song isn't creepy, I fully support no more covers for the...
CyborgScribe
...simple reason we got like...a lot. Christmas songs in general get too many covers.
JAFIOI
I think the real issue is, when can we start executing artists who record "Last Christmas I Gave you My Heart"?
sammyismycat
Yeah! I already gave my heart to George for that song.
uncannymelon
As one of the apparently many former retail workers here, I can't concur strongly enough.
FiveShiftOne
It's so bad though. Like, so bad, lyrically and musically and oh my god yes please can we just burn that song
peachesforme
whoever is down voting you is a terrible person with terrible taste and zero empathy for retail workers
MikeSmith1370
Thanks for the breakdown of this song. Wouldn't have thought of all of those undercurrents.
MrtheOffender
That's the difficult part, you have to judge things by the culture of the time. Like Stranger in a Strange Land, by today's standards its >
MrtheOffender
> incredibly sexist, but the author was born before women could vote everywhere in this country. By their standards it was very progressive
MikeSmith1370
Very good point. I really liked that book also but was hung up on that exact thing.
MrtheOffender
Yeah, like there were still 8 or 9 states left to ratify womens enfranchisement the year he was born& after that all the other less obvious>
MrtheOffender
> rights some women are still fighting for, but despite the ego stroking by casting himself as Jubal & the Sexism many of the intended >
Kyman201
I'd accept someone acknowledging the meaning of the lyrics at the time, but also joking "Wow these lines can be questionable today"
miahtSuperVillain
Oh for goodness sakes! Stop this already! Is seduction going to be called rape someday?!
T3n3br1s
Well... since some guys apparently already rape by holding doors open I guess yeah
NotTheMamaNotTheMama
GIRobot
Kizsurian
At the rate we're going, it's likely. I understand the want/need for things to change, but seeing rape subtext everywhere is not it IMO
NotTheMamaNotTheMama
Right? When I was young I too played that little game of saying no for a while, with the flirty look on my face. It was fun and innocent.
paeches
Stop what? Setting the record straight?
Textuality
It already is by a lot of the more strident/shrill "feminists".
tomyironmane
Ok, this person? This person wins an upvote for finally explaining "rape culture" in a way that makes sense to me.
tomyironmane
Because she doesn't have a socially accepted way to say "yes" or an unambiguous way to say "no." And what about the guy?
tomyironmane
He's got no clear way to READ these signals, he's been in the same sludge, and he's gotta trust that even if she says yes now...
tomyironmane
... that it doesn't turn into "no" in the morning. Feminism has improved some things (she's allowed to say yes), but made others worse.
tomyironmane
(because "yes" can turn into "no" and he'll goin up the river as a rapist if her judgmental friends/relatives find out)
LearnSomething
Yes can never turn into no UNLESS the person was under the influence of something. You can regret it all you want but you still gave consent
draconichide
Pity us retail workers who hear the same 2 or 3 covers over and over
MuffyTheHamburgerSlayer
SIMPLY! HAVING! AWONDERFULCHRISTMASTIME!!!!!!
Slaveblade
Stay strong, fellow retail worker, we can make it through this season!
Kayayayaya
I've been there myself so you have all my pity.
eyeLied
No.
draconichide
Y tho
eyeLied
no good reason...
draconichide
Eye feel like your lying to me.
eyeLied
The reason is because you told me to do something. My typical response is no. It doesn't matter if I'm going to or not, I still say no.
goddamnitletmepickaname
Best one is Will Ferrell and Zoey Deshasdiahjelle
DoublevBomb
D-list Xmas garbage on a 3 hour loop -> starting to understand what homicidal rage might feel like.
Taxicat
Combined with past trauma and stress, this became a legit trigger for me. Running errands without headphones on is hell. :(
pizzaparty
Stay strong, fellow PTSDer. I'm proud of you for finding an inventive way to avoid one of your triggers.
Taxicat
Thanks. Now, if I can just find a way to prevent my abusive brother from coming home for the holidays, I'll be set!
ImguriansFillMySaltReservoir
To be fair, there are plenty of xmas songs out there. Businesses just like torture employees with the same 4 songs.
BC2k2
Wife works at Walmart. Can confirm this is her number 1 complaint during the holiday season.
YamatoIouko
At least they waited until the day before Thanksgiving to start this year... x.x
draconichide
I use to work at Wal-Mart I worked over night stock and that wasn't bad.
eyeLied
So, your penis moves to number 2?
BC2k2
Only in that my penis is thick enough that it takes a LOT of foreplay for me to get inside her.
eyeLied
Cool story, bro
BC2k2
I'm not your bro, friend.
PKBitchGirl
If I have to here the official covers of Do They Know It's Christmas again, people buy the covers because its for charity not because 1/?
PKBitchGirl
the covers are actually any good. If the first cover we bought didn't also have the original version we'd never have played the CD at all
uncannymelon
Oh god I remember that. I'm sorry.
SkylarCalder
I'm amazed that anyone in retail doesn't go apeshit listening to holiday music over and over again. much, MUCH stronger than I. Kudos to all
IvytheCyclops
After awhile, it's like you're brainwashed into loving Christmas lol
SkylarCalder
more stochholm syndrome than holiday cheer
draconichide
I have gone ape shit. Just with out customers around. Where i work radio turns on when alarm is turned off. So I just swear it out then.
BellaKiss
I worked in a restaurant during uni, one tape, same 12 songs every night all Christmas - one other tape for the other 11 months :(
IvytheCyclops
I'VE GOT MY LOVE TO KEEP ME WAAAAARM
notmyrealface
Ok, but what about Blurred Lines?
PleaseNotTheFace
This sounds exactly like something a musical rapist would say.
Darkspire
*slide whistle*
scribetree
allthingsghibli
It's cool that we're so out of touch with 1940's societal norms that people widely misinterpret this song now.
theyar
Let it Snow! is basically the same theme, but way more subtle. Lights are turned way down low, we're still good byeing, I got popcorn...
asquiiiiiiisha
The “we” part is important in that line.
Drzhivago138
Le Tits Now?
MuffyTheHamburgerSlayer
Anal Bum Cover.
RoutemasterFlash
Oh, I'd always assumed that song was about an out-of-control cocaine habit. But I guess those were more innocent times.
aPokal
"Oh the fire is slowly dying. And, my dear, we're still good-bye-ing" Oooooh
Jklmon
Let it Snow is cuddling on the couch, Baby It's Cold Outside is having sex in the bed.
DrBee
So what you're saying is Let it Snow is about foreplay?
IronMarla
Yeah, 'cuz cuddling on the couch on a chilly night by yourselves never leads anywhere. :)
Gyinagal
There is a version where Gollum sings this song with himself and it’s amazing
pinecone
share the source :D
toddthewee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsxqlrc8FW8 it's not that good.
imjeremiad
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gollum+sings+baby+it%27s+cold+outside
retrometro
I up voted, clicked the link, then down voted XD
HungryFurBurger
Yooooooou, why I oughta...
doesitlooklikeigiveafuq
Well Santa baby is still a song about an aggressively festive whore.
JustAnEightStoryTallCrustaceanFromThePaleolithicEra
Or, in bubles case, a guy who abuses a friendship to get better gifts
JohnBluehill
"aggressively festive whore" sounds like a great band name.
JAFIOI
Or a certain type of film.... one which I'd like to see cast wit Ava Devine and Bridgette the Midget.
AheagoAmigo
This song and "Last Christmas" are the bane of my existence when it comes to holiday songs.
HalfManHalfGin
I hate the Paul McCartney one, there's something off about the synth like its reverb/echo is out of time.
BreadyStinellis
No! Wham!'s version of last Christmas is my favorite! I could listen to it year round.
KorruptJustice
Agreed. I don't think it's about rape, it's just a really shit song I don't want to hear. And Last Christmas is even more annoying.
admiralfuckwit
If I hear one more version of santa baby or last christmas. I was grocery shopping and heard three versions of last christmas in a row
T3n3br1s
there ya go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOMmSbxB_Sg
HelpfulCorn
Santa baby is hands down the worst
KorruptJustice
Those two plus this one are absolutely the 3 worst Christmas songs ever...of all time. I'd rather listen to Grandma got Run over by a (1/2)
KorruptJustice
(2/2) Reindeer on an infinite loop than ever hear any of those three songs again.
c0nman
The dynamic in the song is like you at dinner eyeing dessert trying to convince yourself you dont need it even tho u really want it
YutteHermsgervordenbrotborda
That's actually a really good explanation that I'm definitely gonna steal if this subject pops up
SlickerThanNick
i know what you mean about really wanting dessert
MikeMcAwesome91
This guy speaks our language
ThatsWhatSheSed
That’s a great analogy.
JetSetGo
“I don’t need it. I don’t need it.” “I NEED IT!”
paul289
"It's cheat day" "But cheat day was yesterday" "Yeah, but I didn't cheat that much"
pferdmadchen
BOOM
c0nman
"but it's thanksgiving!" "i haven't been eating well already!" "so what's the harm in a little more?" etc
paul289
"They're sugar free and low fat bacon-wrapped cinnamon rolls!"
admiralawesome4213
Honestly I thought they were talking about how it's been redone so many times that it's basically holiday ear rape, at first which I 1/2
admiralawesome4213
Totally agree with what I first thought they meant. It needs to stop. Covered too many times. I can think of a dozen versions right away 2/2
ej255
That's a rather interesting perspective on the lyrics, even up to the last line explaining the patriarchy. Have an upvote.
TCTom
Explaining the patriarchy? Get a grip, dirt.
washdoubt
The last paragraph sums it up nicely! +1
ej255
It does indeed
UpdootAllCats
Interesting user name there. I have one of those.
InOtterSpace
It isn't an interesting perspective it's actually what the song meant...
ej255
I didn't know Frank loesser had the twitter handle @bigbutterandeggman... interesting perspective and possibly/probablly accurate.
ej255
But what the song meant is known to the original writer. What it means is subjective and dependent on the audience.
Oldmemedigger
Aye.. the original meaning is only 100% known by the writer.. but if the song says lets go do drugs.. its about doing drugs.
ej255
Its not "I just had Sex" but it allows the audience to make their own conclusions.
FirstEdition
Not to make this political, but this is an argument for an originalist interpretation of law. Have to understand what was meant in context
Qualtagh
The interesting part is how cultural shifts have changed the implicit meaning of the song away from its intended meaning.
FirstEdition
Meant to reply to this comment rather than the one above
ej255
Another interesting and accurate observation. Another upvote.
DevinNatTyv
They haven't changed the meaning, but instead culture instead has attached their own, new, incorrect meaning.
Qualtagh
I disagree. The song is part of our culture. It's not isolated from it. Modern listeners might be wrong in guessing the original --
Qualtagh
-- to be an excuse to get drunk. Now it's got religious, gift-giving and familial connotations, which are all culturally important.
Qualtagh
-- author's meaning, but that original meaning can differ from the cultural meaning the song has picked up. For instance, Christmas used --
magicrhombus
This is a pretty accurate description of why the "romantic" scenes in old movies always make me uncomfortable.
ImLyingToYouGuys
I honestly never associated that song or any Christmas song with rape before. Never even crossed my mind.
NotTheMamaNotTheMama
Glad I'm not the one. I was here thinking to myself if I was too naive, or maybe is cuz I'm not from the US and have a diferent kind of >
NotTheMamaNotTheMama
> thinking? How does this song suddenly becomes that?
TheRibbajack
This is one of my favorite xmas songs and i get teased for it constantly. Thank you someone for saying what ive been saying. Validation! Lol
Jazzgirl205
The best version is between Al Hirt and Ann-Margret.
investigation27
I like it, too. It's been playing in my head since I read this and I'm already more cheerful. :)
KorruptJustice
I mean, I don't think it's about rape, but I still think it's a shit song.
suretoast
Why is it your favorite?
Sonicdahedgie
'Cause of all the rape subtext
morelikeconsham
One of my favorites too. It's just a fun song about romance, and for me, it hits the sweet spot between sappy and slutty.
investigation27
I like it because, to me, the tone and the spirit indicate they're thrilled to be together. It reminds me of young love.
suretoast
I like that interpretation. Honestly, I can't get past the problem of the last paragraph of the post, but I appreciate your perspective.
TheRibbajack
Exactly what investigation27 said, its all about tone. At most id say the song is pushy at times, but still cant ignore the tone of the song
investigation27
Thanks! I agree it's a valid problem from a cultural perspective, certainly.
liesuponlies
If still rather not have people continually make covers of it because there are already 1000 covers I've it. I've heard 6 different versions
PatrikLilja
I actually don't even know what song they are talking about. From the comments it seems I should be glad.
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
Sometimes they switch up the lyrics so it's less pervy sounding. Like in the Bill Murray Netflix Christmas special the way Jenny Lewis 1
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
phrases "say what's in this drink?" makes it sound like she really likes the drink and wants to know how to make it. 2/2
Bombideer
Sometimes a song that gets covered a hundred times isn't a bad thing. Look at "I Can't Make You Love Me" or even "Hallelujah".
LarvaLamp
Yeah, but then look at "Paved Paradise". I rest my case.
ILoveTomHiddleston
I love almost all of them. Fuck i am getting old.
ILOVECORGIIIES
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA1MkNkq-6M you're WELCOME
aristera
Still better than some fucking christmas shoes.
Dominomotion8
Haven't you heard 1,000?
IamNotAshamed
I've just listened to the song the first time ever and will totally cover it with my girlfriend. Have been looking for nice duets.
MyBigMouth
Only 994 to go then
FullSpeedAhead
Actually, hearing Oh Holy Night while shopping at Walmart tweaks my girdle even more, at least on the radio I can turn it off.
WaxyNips
Personally like the She & Him version where the guy and girl parts are flipped
AwesomeName
There will be more covers as long as singers want to fuck each other.
CallsEmAsISeesEm
Call me a grinch but all Christmas music starts to sound the same after a while....
MayorDeweyMayorDewey
i mean, isnt it all kinda like, jazz+bells+christmas song? or more recently the same tired shit we’ve heard over and over+bells i guess
DukeDarkwood
Even this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb-Mce9VpmY
SirPelvisJohnwood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_9KwCm0aps
AwkwardKeming
Or at least let Pandora recognize that different covers of the same song are the same song. Please don't play White Christmas five times...
appaismyspiritanimal
The one that caught my attention in recent years was Lady Gaga and Joseph Gordon-Levitt. They reversed the parts. He was singing what was 1/
appaismyspiritanimal
2/ was traditionally sung by the woman, and she was singing what was traditionally sung by the man. Great voices both of them.
paeches
iirc, the original has a three separate couples and one is a woman hosting
liesuponlies
Of the song within an hour on a Christmas radio station. Between that and Santa Baby it's just too much!
TheRotundOne
Or most Christmas music. We don't need any more covers of everything. We already have 500. Per song
umbrellamaker
I hate Santa Baby
liesuponlies
So do I. It's the most selfish shit song I've ever heard.
ikagawa
So stop listening to Christmas radio.
liesuponlies
But then how am I supposed to get into the Christians spirit?
oldshot
Write some new songs. But stop anyone from covering it. You won't make as much money but you won't have to hear them so often.
Kennleth
Change stations to one that has a bigger rotation? At work I play a bilingual station to mix it up between French and English.
sourcandy
Found the Canadian
Kennleth
A qui? >.>
TheRotundOne
That's awesome for you. In my area all the radio stations are run by the same comapny. So there are two stations that plays Christmas 1/2
SwitchPup
FWIW, I use Pandora for all my Christmas music needs. Lots of variety, so I can change and customize at will!
TheRotundOne
i would, but i have a 30 minute drive and can't afford unlimited data.
TheRotundOne
Music. One that thinks a decent rotation is the same song every hour by a different artist. The other the same philosophy, but with a 2/3
TheRotundOne
Random parody song thrown in the mix. 3/3
toddthewee
Fucking trerrible. The only decent version of Santa Baby is Madonna's, because it's quite a bit faster and therefore significantly shorter!
dijital101
Christ, that Madonna version of Santa Baby makes me want to jam q-tips into my eardrums.
Gremlynn4023
My man
liesuponlies
And yet no one ever wants to do a cover of Dominic the Christmas Donkey
haveyouheardabouttheseinternetmemes
That Community episode where Annie sang that Christmas song to Jeff was such a good parody of Santa Baby! ... boopy doopy doop doop SEX!
jargonmon
"But...But it doesn't conform to my current ideologies and should therefore be banned from the airwaves"- random protester/snowflake
WilliamKeith
As the explainer points out, the objector's read is reasonable. It takes someone with some art history expertise to clarify, which is okay.
mastikator
Downvoted because you're using "protestor" as a pejorative.
Duckfan91
Using snowflake makes you look dumn
dtleanne10
As dumb as not being able to spell/type dumb? (Sorry, too perfect to let slide) (Unless it’s deliberate) (Oh no!)
Duckfan91
I was being ironical
StankyPankySammich
So does misspelling dumb.
Duckfan91
Humor much?
StankyPankySammich
How is misspelling words humor though?
Duckfan91
Evidently, it isnt
ohwhocaresanyway
Qualtagh
Banned? No. Phased out since it has dated references that no longer resonate with a modern audience? Possibly.
easybrz
How about leave it alone and when people don't want to hear it, it will die. How about let people enjoy things.
Qualtagh
I'm not attacking it, I'm just stating that radio stations and such might conclude that the song is no longer popular.
easybrz
Or thigh tattoo conclude that when Arianna grande and that little orange hobbit remake it people will want to listen to it.
SocialMediaMakesUsLessSocial
You having a stroke? Because I hope so.
ohwhocaresanyway
Downvotes because of the use of “snowflake”.
jargonmon
Guess people didn't like the intentional pun.
DenounceAll
Why?
Winterboer
Because somebody is feeling self-conscious.
ohwhocaresanyway
I’m going to assume you are someone who has their head stuck real deep in trumps ass.
ohwhocaresanyway
Because it’s a stupid term that one set of assholes uses in an attempt to make less of another set of equally ridiculous assholes.
ohwhocaresanyway
But mainly because it’s just annoying. Just like people saying “trumptards” or whatever the fuck it is...
TwoToneeRebel
Look at this snowflake.
ohwhocaresanyway
Good one
baconandplagues
But I think Christmas music is dull and that Christmas should be confined specifically to Christmas day.
izzmonster
Agreed. Unless youre talking about carol of the bells or the Grinch.
baconandplagues
I will state that the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" can be played at any time during the year and I have zero complaints
AdvonKoulthar
I'll be generous and allow the entire month of December. No more than that I say!
baconandplagues
Acceptable compromise
thedon89
I don't even wanna listen to it on Christmas day
baconandplagues
Christmas day is chill
MrtheOffender
HEY! Trans-Siberian Orchestra is friggin awesome, their songs pop up on my Pandora in June.
baconandplagues
Not my kinda thing honestly
MrtheOffender
Well to each their own i guess.
easybrz
Let people enjoy things.
baconandplagues
Don't crowd the radio with dull music. It's fine when it doesn't affect me. When it does fuck you.
easybrz
Change the channel, popular vote wins.
baconandplagues
Its on every channel and it's fucking bullshit
anengineerandacat
It's fine, grab some mistletoe and hang it somewhere with high traffic; maybe someone will be nice to you.
baconandplagues
Eh. I'll just wait for a holiday I like instead. Still Christmas should be for Christmas. No need to eat up all of November and December
ItsNotASchoonerItsASailboat
The point of the season spanning from thanksgiving to new years is colorful lights and happy people in the darkest coldest time of year
baconandplagues
Don't like em.
MooseSK
Jan & Feb is darker & colder here. It's always like ok Christmas is over, time to hit the beach! annndd 2mos of bleak, frigid darkness.
TotallyNotADogInTrenchCoat
Zach Braff and Donald Faison dis my favorite version
yougetanornament
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGCZMQUeXo
RisingPhoenix92
.
NonConformistFlamingo
Oh my god I didn't know this existed until now, thank yoh so much
DreadPierateRoberts
awsome
TotallyNotADogInTrenchCoat
Thank you
DragonsSarcasim1
I don't believe this. Dean Martin making a weak drink? Heresy
TheCentralIntelligenceAgency
I agree I've never know Deno to make a weak drink
DocWino
Part of his act.
DeathToHeretics
DID SOMEBODY SAY HERESY?!
NazaLutsu
You, I see, are a man of culture.
dogsrulearmystrong
Steubenville, Ohio
Theoreticalheretic
Ryebread91
And his burgers are great too!
GingerLaird
He probably understood that his preference for alcohol didn't apply to everyone else.
TrijezniMujo
he drank all the booze himself.
ArniePye
There was only one rule in the Deno household: no drinking after dinner. Of course you didn’t eat until 3am
Sweetmadness85
He actually didnt start drinking until after his son died. Before then it was apple juice
DC1888
The drunk act was exactly that, an act. He sure played it convincingly though.
PresidentialRoboHobo
"I don't drink no more... I just freeze it and eat it like a popsicle"
thatpatguy
TheShogunOfSarcasm
Sure he made a weak drink. It was HER drink. There wasn't any booze left to put in it.
noyougofuckyourself
He usually drank tea meant to look like booze so...
Hutchy01
Well ain't that a kick in the head.
DragonsSarcasim1
The room was completely black!
txronin55
I hugged her and she hugged back
TayTayLovin
Anything but Johnny Guitar
Hutchy01
I didn't mind Johnny Guitar but I'd like to put the writer of Big Iron in a blender.
squip
*Hennessy
Morgoth117
This is fucking gold
ThisGuyHere
https://imgur.com/7YUQO27
BronyIkaru
Absolutely Amazing.
JinJinkies
Cataleast
Nice :)
Strongharbour432
Damn good
amweebo
DeathToHeretics
HERESY
MrA007
Mutant, xeno, or heretic?
finwolven
Yes.
DeathToHeretics
PURGE THEM ALL
GreenYawgmoth
I like both your jib and the way it is cut.
DragonsSarcasim1
Your jib is most suitable
ipickupheavythings
what's a jib?
ContagiousOutrageous
A small sail at the fore of a boat, usually less powerful than the main but very helpful in turning through the wind (tacking)
forgotmyoldusernameclassic
Promote this man.
smallskillerofhambino
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/jib
sammyismycat
a jab
smallskillerofhambino
A well tailored jib indeed.
Molvanian
...So it remains a somewhat fucked up song, but only because of old norms where women couldn't enjoy sex, and men had to pressure...
ICarpeYourDiems
Somehow people think that description of norms is "patriarchy"
morelikeconsham
If you're a pessimist. Or it's a song about two lovers being with each other despite social pressures to not do so.
Molvanian
That's not really a pessimism/optimism thing. That's certainly also an element of the song as well, as is the fucked up bit.
MrtheOffender
No. the Song isn't fucked up ... but society is, and we need to keep working on improving things.
Molvanian
Alright, I'll concede that point.
doubleKlutch
Old norms? I think these norms are still alive under the surface today, just more subtle. Cultures don't change so completely so rapidly.
Molvanian
Eh, I think there's been enough pop culture sexualized females to at least say in the main stream, that idea is dead, also, we're talking
Molvanian
about 80 years here if it's from the 30s. Compare 1930s Japan to modern Japan and repeat that statement.
doubleKlutch
As if JP and US share similar historic events. Consider stud vs slut, the promiscuity double standard.
Molvanian
So wait, are we arguing the concept of cultures changing in less than a century, or arguing the US has not, because of the existence of
Molvanian
Bonus Post: And what exactly makes the US so much more special than Japan? Are we going context specific, or independent?
Thatguythatknowsbetter
Well that was an interesting read I'll bring up next time someone bitches about it, have an upvote.
rlfcl
i think the response was a little more nuanced than just shutting someone down who was bitching.
CharlieVermin
Nuance is for beta males. Alphas talk to win. It's kill or be killed!
scottjaeger
someone bitched about it? in the real world I mean?
CactusFantastic0
I listen to Christmas radio and always said “hey it’s the rape song!” Whenever it came on. Now I know better!
scottjaeger
but c'mon, isn't every single piece of music ever recorded *REALLY* about rape? including instrumental?
Glasgow351
You too Sir.
nclu
Very interesting indeed. By my count, I've had exactly zero chances to use this new information, though.
Sharangir
1 My friends are usually part of subcultures that don't fit in the bigger picture, so you end up discussing sociological subjects more often
Sharangir
2 I don't recommend discussing this stuff with your family or something though, you'll just get stares or even angry shouting.
Thatguythatknowsbetter
Just wait. Xmas songs will be everywhere.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
The problem with it is, even in that time, she could have actually meant no and said all these exact same things. As pointed out in OP's /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
final sentence, all this ambiguity meant there's no way to *actually* say no. /2
investigation27
Do we really believe this? Because functionally there is a perceptible difference between ohh no! blinkblinksmile and NO.
rshini
Except people aren't always good at reading body language, or purposely ignore it.
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Obviously you don't. But yes, this still happens today. Where one person doesn't believe the other person's no and goes ahead anyway. /1
InkyBlinkyPinkyAndClyde
Have you never heard the phrase "she wanted it"? That's the excuse that rapists use to convince themselves they're not rapists. /2
rlfcl
And even if they're sincere, it's why (at least in Canada) there's an explicit defence called "mistaken but honest belief in consent"
51CorgisInABar
To be fair, in modern context it doesn’t mean anything like this at all. I’m all for historical accuracy, but you gotta update your view
investigation27
I'm pretty sure an upbeat, "I ought to say no, no, no, sir" is clear at any time. The statement, in words, is 'I should', not 'I want to'.
CyanideSprite
"The answer is no" is explicit. It's coercion ala "50 no's and a yes is still a yes".
StragoMagus
It's almost like things exist in their own time & maybe we shouldn't bring them to our time & demand they mean what they would if made today
Nomtombouts
I bet you think we need to censor old cartoons as well huh
51CorgisInABar
Where ever did you get that from? All I said was you should keep in mind both historical and modern context bro. As a matter of fact I dont
51CorgisInABar
believe you should censor old cartoons, but much like this song you should go in knowing both contexts. Modern context of blackface is
51CorgisInABar
that it’s incredibly offensive. Historical context is that it was humorous. Do we put in blackface and say ‘but historically this is funny!’
51CorgisInABar
sometime.
51CorgisInABar
You also seem to have missed the last paragraph entirely, I suggest you go read it
KIthas
Or you could accept that a song is decades old and doesn't mean exactly what it sounds like. Context is important.
51CorgisInABar
Did you miss the part where I acknowledged both historical and modern context? Unless you are worse than retarded, you can do both.
51CorgisInABar
You can do both, right?
KIthas
There is no 'modern context'. It only has historical context. Any modern lens you apply to it is foing to be innacurate and unfair.
Armored0Titan0
But the modern context ignores the historical. You actually can’t do both because they clash explicitly.
LupusGrey
Considering that on a recent post people assumed a girl wanting to visit her SO's friend was cheating these archaic conceptions still linger
ewww21
Link that post
[deleted]
[deleted]
LupusGrey
They would. That's the scary part. Why do people still think that? It's so paranoid and restrictive. You should trust your SO and friends.
YourWaifuIsTrash
In either case the idea that people can't be trusted around the other sex is an archaic concept
[deleted]
[deleted]
LupusGrey
What rationality? I think it's even counter productive. It might be an instinctive fear response, but those are rarely logical.
RoutemasterFlash
I dunno, maybe someone should do a PhD on why everything is so overthought now.
BreadyStinellis
My husband and my good friend hang out all the time, whether I'm there or not. I have zero concern about cheating. People have friends.
Thatknifeguy
My wife and I were friends with another couple, and we all hung out interchangeably. No concerns whatsoever
ewww21
It may not be the case for you, but I always shake my head when shit like this goes on and the wife is flabbergasted that he cheated
LupusGrey
Good. Then you dodged a bullet by not waiting until it would happen anyway. And if they don't cheat, well you have a keeper.
BreadyStinellis
Agreed, but in my case both of them are the last people they would sleep with, ya know? My husband is bi, I'd be more concerned with a man
BreadyStinellis
Than another woman. I would think if he'd cheat it wouldn't be with someone who looks and acts so much like me.
BunnyliciousBubblegum
This same concept also explains why advances that seem so romantic in old movies would be deemed creepy in today's world.
IconicM
What about the creepy stuff in modern romcoms?
ixonlyxtrollxidiots
Bitch I bought you a goat, we fuckin...
jval
Well said. That weird fight-til-you’re-kissing move that is in all old movies.
ZaWithDude
Until you said this.. I never knew how to put it. Of course, today's romance seems to be booty call and whether you accept or not. And I
ZaWithDude
find that alternative to be quite shite really.
ILikeCharmanderOk
Na u just have that impression most likely bc you hang around young hipster doofuses. The romance I see is not booty calls.
ZaWithDude
Doofuses, awesomeness. Issue is, these young hipster doofuses are really my only option, being that age too. So I'm limited, as a dingus.
Gayforbae
Like basically anything bond? Does that excuse modern bonds though? Since they are still harkening back 2 the original material & character?
UCanLookButUCantTouch
It's the Dobler-Dahmer Theory
GingerLaird
Society changes, the past remains the same.
OkayByeByebyebyebye
Every Harrison ford movie ever
Jklmon
You people bash people who claim to see sexism in everything, but fail to see that they might be right all this time...
Blundermore
2 all the times they still claimed something to be sexism and it just simply wasn't true at all...
Blundermore
If you claim everything is sexism the laws of probability will suggest you'll eventually be right about /something/, but that doesn't excuse
kawaiimoogle
I recently watched the old bond movies with Connery...damn its hard to watch from a female perspective
mandadadada
I never liked bond movies somehow couldn't explain, until I realized why, a lot of things started making sense
RexFury
If it was more about the guns and spying that'd be fine but did they really have to name a character "OctoPussy" or w/e
kawaiimoogle
Not only that...the way the women are treated by the male characters is so hard to watch with a modern perspective imo
kawaiimoogle
All the groping and grabbing etc...it makes me furious even though i should not care
dilbobaggins
Like when Clark Gable raped his female co-star, got her pregnant, told her it was her fault but everyone just thought it was an affair.
JStengah
It's almost as if standards of acceptable behavior change as time passes. Even though the song is appropriate for the time it was written in
BunnyliciousBubblegum
I think one of many problems is that times have changed so quickly. We are still pining over these old romantic gestures and we want them
BunnyliciousBubblegum
But we would be uncomfortable if anyone tried. We haven't quite figured out what kind of romance is acceptable for modern day. Hell even
BunnyliciousBubblegum
Movies from just 2010 depict women saying no and men continuing to pursue until BAM love. But in reality that's creepy.
JStengah
By today's standards it's still rapey as fuck. Doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed, just something to be aware of.
JStengah
It doesn't mean anyone that performs it or likes listening to it is advocating date rape either.
NotBigBrother84
"Oh no Mr. Company!" *slap*
everettscott
*holds sore face* *swoon*
vwyx
Twilight is a cultural milestone in today's world, so it's possible that some women like creepy behavior if it's someone they're into anyway
myfirstaccountwasshadowbanned
only if the guy is attractive
PKBitchGirl
Twatlight was written by a moron though
librarywyrm
How do you think toxic relationships start?
Elven91
The "unless he is hot" exception always stands
PKBitchGirl
I'm guessing the 'unless he is hot' exception stands until they meet that exception.
IconicM
The problem is fantasy rarely correlates with what people want in reality. For instance I love stabbing orcs to death in Shadow of War, but
IconicM
doubt I'd enjoy actually orcs rampaging through my city. In the context of sexuality though, women are often instinctively turned on by
IconicM
being wanted, and being so desired that someone breaks the "rules" is even hotter. BUT, much like fighting orcs, they don't like too much of
asquiiiiiiisha
I had massive fantasies about older men when I was a young teen and frankly it still turns me on, very much b/c of the transgressive nature1
IconicM
that in reality because it leads to very undesirable consequences. That is, vampire dude can get a little rapey because he's not real, just
BunnyliciousBubblegum
I never said they weren't, I just stated the reason we love old romantic movies but probably would be pretty freaked if someone really tried
BunnyliciousBubblegum
To make a move like that.
bananaforscaleplease
https://iwsmt-content-ok2nbdvvyp8jbrhdp.stackpathdns.com/81120141219134.gif
YourLordCthulhu
I mean...I've had plenty of gorgeous guys be incredibly creepy. Sometimes creeps are just creeps.
RoundThreeFIGHT
Step 1: be attractive
vwyx
I'm sure that helps, but there are plenty of abusive boyfriends out there that look like a hippo's ass.
PKBitchGirl
No, Step 1 is actually "don't smell so badly that people can't stand to be around you"
InCaseOfStairsUseFire
For men that are attractive those behaviors aren’t creepy. They’re confident.
DysgraphicProgrammer
There is a general pattern of attractive people being forgiven all sorts of faults. This seems like just part of that pattern.
PKBitchGirl
Usually the people who are forgiving towards them aren't the people they are directing their faults towards
egbertmoxie
Are you speaking as someone who likes men or someone who thinks it's viewed as confidence by women?
Gayforbae
For me:
vwyx
Nah. I mean, lots of women who are (presumably) attracted to Robert Pattenson have talked about how creepy Edward is.
knotjoking88
Not giving a fuck what the other person wants is always creepy and in many cases can be criminal. Coercing is also creepy->criminal.
dmax12
"Applying pressure" or "Being unwavering" is not Coercing, it is creepy. Like running into the homeless guy who won't stop asking for money.
YutteHermsgervordenbrotborda
Usually they're still creepy, the behavior is just more easily forgiven by some people
Ivain
Apparently Fifty Shades is a fantasy-milestone as well, which is why I dislike it so much, it associated BDSM with unconsensual sex.
Ivain
Or, well, rape, really. Which is what it becomes as soon as christian ignores the safeword (which happens at some point in 1 of the books)
dmax12
Yeah well. Lots of people have rape or rape like fantasies. So it being in a fictional book about fake people seems to scratch that itch.
PKBitchGirl
Yeah well, it also makes people enter the BDSM community think that rape is permissible
Ivain
My problem is that it increases the number of people that look upon those practicing bdsm as people 'something's gone wrong with'.
dmax12
So your problem is that uneducated people don't care about their education on a topic and their belief may be wrong.
asquiiiiiiisha
Ugh yeah I’m not in the scene but the stuff in that series is not healthy (and often actually non-con) and everyone I know who is hates it.
asquiiiiiiisha
Lots of people have fantasies about letting someone else be in control Fantasy isn’t reality and even in that context Twilight is terrifying
vwyx
I've never read it, but from what I've heard, Edward's not even the creepiest one, Bella is, constantly self-destructing just for attention.
PKBitchGirl
Edward is the creepiest one though, he stands in Bella's room watching her sleep while she doesn't know he's there.
asquiiiiiiisha
It’s fucking horrible, but in a train-wreck sort of way. That was a fun summer of constantly screaming “WHAT THE FUCK DID I JUST READ!!???”
catsaregroundowls
I thought it was cute and just geared towards a certain demographic. Now that I am older I hate it, but at that time it was nice.
Pawnderlust
I liked twilight but I probably won't let my pre teen daughter's read it because Bella is a horribly weak character.
asquiiiiiiisha
Readthe whole thing. Bella goes catatonic when Edward leaves. Her dad hi5s Jacob when she hurts her hand punching him for forcing a kiss.
vwyx
What the fuck.
ZazzySayWhat
First off, her father is told that Bella punched Jacob when he kissed her, after seeing the state of her hand. Secondly, he had been worried
Throwaway190190
They're both pretty awful. Edward watches her sleep for months before she knows about it. He's also supposed to like 200 y/O and she's 17
catsaregroundowls
I am not saying it's a act of modern literature by any means, but the Internet hates it. It is geared towards 14-18 year old girls as ...
catsaregroundowls
But the premise of immortality makes him not 200. He is frozen at that age.