I go to PT for my back and these are the exercises they give me to do. They help a lot, are fairly easy to do even if you're in pain, and are not dangerous.
chiropracty is widely regarded in the medical community to at best have the same impact as crystals, and at worse, actively cause bodily harm. Simple stretches can help but you also gotta know how to stretch in a way that doesn't cause tears or contusions which I wouldn't trust these guys to know how to do.
I received a pretty bad injury when I was in high school, went to a medical professional and tried to get it fixed, had an MRI and multiple other scans done and they said they couldn't find anything so they put me on a steroid. I couldn't walk without a cane and even sitting would sometimes flare the pain so bad I couldn't think. Went to a chiropractor a family friend recommended and he found the problem in two minutes, re-aligned my hips which had rotated so one leg was longer than the other.
I had a similar experience. 5 medical docs and lots of meds couldn't fix my constant vertigo. Chiropractor tweaked my neck once and I was fixed. Insurance wouldn't cover it.
At the risk of sounding like a complete and total shill, I want to recommend Jeff Cavaliere, a physical therapist and strength coach, to anyone looking for lots of great, free advice on how to strengthen your entire body the right way. Trust me, he changed my life, and I haven’t given him a dime. Except for his preworkouts, I like those.
Another Jeff fan. His base is always anatomy. I also like Mark Wildman. But who am I, besides a 79 yr old who still surfs at every opportunity, mountain bikes, does my old lifeguard swims, etc. Just to get under some skins, without work and more, Self-Understanding (Who else is our case manager, besides themself?), from 3 Good Chiropractors, I'd be just another American couch potato, watching sports on TV. Foundation Training (YT) is another program that works on good back alignment/strength.
Not saying I support it but a while back I had really bad lower back pain and couldn't sit for long had to lay down. Went to a chiropractor, he didn't do any of the neck pull stuff, just had me do some neck stretching stuff and the only weird stretch was had a band on my forehead with weight pulling back and some other support for like 15 min, massage gun on the lower back and more stretching on another machine. It worked and don't have that pain for more than an hour if im on pc long hours.
Any "profession" that has its own schools instead of being associated with an actual university is very suspicious. There's a reason universities don't want particular "fields".
Do it! I started an exercise program that does this kind of movement prep as warm ups. I’m 39 and it’s changed my life. Way less back and foot/ankle pain.
Closely related, probably nearby on his site: Cat rolls, start at cat pose, roll spine from pelvis to neck, ending in Cow pose. Return to Cat, again starting at pelvis. Table top: (Down facing version) on hands and knees, feet extended, hands forward at wrists, back and neck straight. This blends into Balancing Table Top, by extending one arm level to ground, head looking down, then extend opposite side leg, if your back sensations allow. Alternate sides, arm always opposite side from leg. This
These stretches are lovely. I get awful tension in my thoracic spine. I go over a foam roller a couple times and it sounds like D Day. Also, those rotations are pretty gentle.
My sacroiliac goes out occasionally - it gets all jammed up and gets very uncomfortable. Chiropractors give me so much relief I can't tell you. I can't understand all the negative comments here.
I'm getting 2 levels of my lower lumbar surgically fused tomorrow. ( just to add to the one I already have fused there). Degenerative kyphosis and bone cancer has really done a number on my spine. 🥺 I'll have more titanium in me than the Space station. Wish me luck! 🤞
To everyone slagging on chiros.. get over yourself. I trust my chiro far more than any western medicine quack. Speaking from 20 yrs experience with a fantastic chiro
That’s a bad argument. One area of study doesn’t mean they can do anything. Eg a ENT doctor can’t do heart surgery. That said chiropractors can’t do anything.
Funny you say that, seeing a chiro meant I've never needed surgery. Sure if I needed a lung transplant I wouldn't ask my chiro but I can assure that when my body hurts she's got most the answers. When it's outside her scope she always points me in the right direction, to other medical professionals
Some people have a thing called chronic pain where they had a severely traumatic injury or body condition that means they don't live a day without some form of pain.
As someone with EDS, I have done these exercises for almost 6 years now and I have gained an inch on my height. The hump is gonna and my neck doesn't hurt nearly as much. I also have a collar bone now. It works.
To those of you who dislike Chiropractors, you need to understand that there are 2 types. 1 is an actual medical professional who has a doctorate and knows what they're doing and the other is a quack who tries to sell you healing oils and gems while barely understanding anatomy. There's nothing wrong with the first type since when done properly, chiro has helped people. If it was nearly as deadly as you all think, then there would be mass graves behind each office. Quacks exist in any field.
It's more of a spectrum than "two types", and the big problem is that, to a typical person, most of them can _seem_ like the first type indefinitely. Not only does that mean that the field is effectively full of scammers, it means that _finding_ actually helpful ones requires either a ton of work or referrals from people with good judgement.
No. Chiropractors are not doctors, unless they have a PhD that's unrelated to Chiro. In Canada they paid the government enough money to call themselves doctors, but you cannot be a real doctor by knowing and studying chiro.
My office has a 30 min stretching block added to every employees calendar. Most of us attend the video at the same time and chat while we stretch. It's a great mental break in my day and probably the reason that my body hasn't fused into a seated position.
Really just 10? Have any favorite exercises you recommend? I struggle with hamstrings and thoracic mobility but don’t have a ton of time for exercises.
For those that hate chiropractors, understand that the basic premise is that your spine carries a huge bundle of nerves to most of your body, and your spine doesn't always reset to neutral position after certain impacts or motions. Your muscles compensate by holding the section as still as possible to prevent further nerve disruption. You can also feel the effects in your extremities when affected. A good chiropractor can feel these tense areas and diagnose pain without you telling them about it
If they can't, then absolutely do not let them adjust you. My grandmother has had an arm put back into its socket due to degenerative ligament strength, followed by PT to re-strengthen the muscles and ligaments. Men's hips are often off balance due to sitting on thick wallets on one side.
There are horrible chiros out there that want to sign you up for two appts a week for the rest of your life. The good ones want to find and fix structural issues and not see you again. If your chiro has framed signed pics from Olympians and pro athletes they treat thanking him/her for contributing to their success? They’re one of the good ones. If your chiro is in a strip mall next to a payday loan store and offers discounts for seeing them 8 times a month? Walk away.
You're right and wrong. It's all made up bullshit, but Olympians and pro athletes go see them anyway. They also do shit like not changing their socks or wearing their underwear backwards because they think it will help them win. Superstition is more rampant in sports than anywhere else that isn't sailing, gambling, or the military.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic “Sports Chiropractors specialize in the prevention and care of musculoskeletal injuries. The demand for sports teams to have a Sports Chiropractor is increasing. All 32 teams in the National Football League (NFL) offer chiropractic services. Additionally, 30 teams in Major League Baseball (MLB) utilize chiropractors.”
The same MLB that looked the other way when guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were juicing themselves to comical proportions to allow them to hit more home runs? And the same NFL who for decades ignored the serious CTE problem which has resulted in hundreds of scrambled brains? Sorry, but the fact that the NFL and MLB condone something doesn't legitimatize it to me.
I didn't unmute to hear if he was recommending any chiro adjustments so yeah, agree with yeah, good mobility movements and to strengthen the upper back which everyone needs with tech neck and poor posture
Seemed to be purely PT kinda stuff, saying to make sure you actually move your chest and not just wave your arm about. Audio was OK, no annoying music.
There's no real value in good advice if it's coming from an inherently dodgy source like an expert in BS quack therapy. The process of sorting their good advice from bullshit advice involves the same effort as just finding a separate trustworthy source in the first place
Overall these stretches and exercises don’t seem harmful, but any risk of overextension or exertion, especially if you’re already spinally challenged, is a real possibility. He seems to be demonstrating back/spine stretches and exercises to strive towards, though maybe a disclaimer for *please don’t push for this exact pose on your first try* may have been a good *this coffee is hot* warning before the demonstration.
When did stretches become quack therapy? I mean I don’t care for 60 second hot takes but I’d be a liar if I didn’t join my grandma with her exercise tapes doing pretty similar stuff. Took a 3rd round of breast cancer to take that little amazon out.
Chiropractic is quack therapy. A chiroprsctor advising you to do stretchs is like a homopath telling you to stay hydrated. It's good advice but useless since you only know that because you knew already or because someone with real expertise told you
But I might have misread. Are you worried the demonstrated stretches and exercises are in fact dangerous or harmful? I know overdoing or overexertion can make an issue worse, but he seems to be demonstrating goals/prevention. Can you clarify?
Hi! I'm doing physical therapy, under the supervision of an actual doctor for neck and shoulder pain, that open book type exercise is one he has me doing for my shoulder mobility.
I mean ya if you need PT, go see a PT. The exercise/stretches demonstrated are logical to improve spinal health. If I just have back pain from sitting like a literal shrimp at a desk for 4+ hrs a day, I just would do this stuff, not get told 2 months after a PT wellness referral that my insurance doesn’t cover almost this exact stuff. Source: doctor parent, and I worked in medical rehabilitation assistance and supervise/witnessed both PT and OT visits with (lower challenge) version of this.
I'm not saying because these stretches are good then chiropractors are good, I'm saying that just because chiropractors are then that shouldn't discredit the benefits of these specific stretches
A chiropractor near me literally was a burger flipper before paying $200 for a "licence" to practice. It's always worth checking people's backgrounds...
The problem with chiropracty is that it's essentially unregulated. There are way less stringent rules on how to run a chiropractic practice than other medical practices, meaning you can get quacks and no real way to report them
No, it isn't a medical science. They can't be good when they practice something fundamentally flawed. Physical therapy and massages are great if your back is having issues. Chiropractic care is not and will put you at risk for issues down the road.
Yeah, we've got a few (good) chiropractors as (I.T.) clients, and they'll tell you straight up, the quacks give all of them a REALLY bad name. Good chiro will recommend P.T. style stretches, take X-rays/CT scans, etc. Bad ones grab, yank, crack and don't ask questions.
Ehh, I see where you're coming from, but it is a "medical practice" in the sense that they're attempting to help heal your body. It's just that a lot of the more wild cures have literally 0 evidence-based backing. So it's a "medical practice", but no more rigorously proven than the "medical practice" of whatever bullshit I want to come up with to help people.
It's a medical practice like the person selling you magic crystals or reading your tea leaves is a medical practice. So, it's not a medical practice. At all. None of it is evidence based, and if they ever get anything right, it's entirely by accident.
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health. No chiro nonsense involved.
Actual, real physical therapists are so damn underrated. I went in for chronic shoulder pain and they gave me a very short list of stretches and exercises to do. I can do all of them sitting down in five minutes. No more shoulder pain. But getting an appointment with one is so hard, I wish it was something like a dentist where I could just roll up and say "Hey what should I do when it hurts when I go like this?". Instead I have to go through doctors for months to get to one.
I’m glad I get to see my last physical therapist (different issue) because I’d just show and while doing the stretches I’d ask about any other weird pain I felt daily and how I could help it and he’d throw those exercises at me too so I’d walk away feeling even better.
Chiropractors is Bunk. We had a kid not even 23 go see one because they offered a “free adjustment” that adjustment caused a spinal injury and now he is on welfare because if he stands for more than 20 minutes he has a seizure, and he only has partial control of his legs.
I think it depends on which one and the type of schooling they require. I had one who figured out I had pancreatic cancer 6 months before it was actually diagnosed. Another took me from 10+ years of complex regional pain syndrome to pain free in less than a year.
I had one in high school. They helped with pain from a high contact sport I did. But idk. They always tried to sell me junk science crap. I just wanted a high powered back pop
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health, or a little update if you sit like a literal shrimp at your desk half the day. No chiro nonsense involved.
Since we are flinging anecdotes, I've gotten chiro practice care for 20 years and it relieves my pain. It FUCKING WORKS if you have a competent, TRAINED practitioner.
Be careful, I tried to argue there are some who do a good job and got downvoted. My chiro found out my left foot was 12mm too short, resulting in crooked spine and neck pain. No doctors have figured that out, I would have gone my whole life without knowing it if not for him. My dad, who has massive hip pain sat down with him for 5 minutes and he went "I know what it is" took an x-ray of hip, ball joint is completely wilted. Doctors tunnel visioned on prolapsed spine disk for years...
Now, I believe Chiros should only be used as a tool to get better, not as a return to get adjusted regularly. If you're healthy you shouldn't need to. My chiro share those views, helping me with exercises do adjust spine, got me sole insert for left foot. Minimal adjustments since my body is pretty healthy overall, just a bit stiff from the years (30) of imbalanced shorter leg.
My dad sees one a lot to help with his many issues and it honestly relieves his pain and keeps him in better shape. I see the same one once a month these days just to ensure I don't end up wrenching something out of place thanks to some childhood spinal trauma that means when something goes wrong, it really goes wrong. She doesn't do the whole *CRACK SNAPPLE POP* shit, and even has papers out on her front desk explicitly saying what she does and what it will not do. Things like "I make adjusts
Depends on the injury. The damaged disc in my neck is incapable of healing itself; it cannot be unruptured, so I will need life long adjustments for relief of CHRONIC pain.
Sounds like my dad. Chronic hand pain from it being crushed by a tractor hitch and never properly healed so it's all scarred tissue, and she helps with that and back pains that his stimulator can't deal with. Is a great quality of life benefit for him. She also treats me since I have to bend over to floor level a lot and have minor spine trauma from childhood. It also serves to keep me very aware of posture and trying to avoid certain movements.
Never let any chiropractor touch your head or neck. The sudden motion of cracking your neck can tear major blood vessels, and you might die immediately or even hours later. It's happened too often already.
I was in a not-my-fault simple fender bender when I was 18 headed to a midterm test. Open shut case, she got a fat ticket for bumping me, whatever. Within a week, three chiropractors magically knew my phone number.
An important fact to know about ANY health care provider is that you as the patient are in charge and you need to give consent and you can revoke consent. It is your body after all. There is an assumption of consent and they are an authority so people often just go along with it. But for doctors, physical therapy, chiropractic, massage therapy or podiatry whatever it is don't do or consent to stuff without understanding it and it's risks and feeling comfortable enough to proceed
The only chiros I'll allow are horse chiros, because they essentially train horses to allow handling and give them massages to help them relax (the vast majority of horses could benefit from some relaxation). Then again, they're not violently wrenching horse heads around, either.
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health. No chiro nonsense involved.
Are you sure? Are you sure I shouldn't go in and get a strap around my neck that the chiro can then pull so hard it yeets my spine right out the window?
Sure, right up until the spontaneous cervical artery dissection. Then your brain stops making happy chemicals, sad chemicals, and any other chemicals. Forever.
Chiropractors are always dumb because it involves getting relief from moving something far out of what the range of motion is suppose to be doing, this video is great though cuz its teaching you how to fix this with actual exercise movements
The plural of anecdote is not data, and just in this thread there are several anecdotes of opposite experiences to yours. Your personal experience does not apply across the board, so maybe shut the fuck up.
I have cervical radiculopathy. Never in my 67 years have I heard such nonsense. You cited no source! Without chiropractic adjustments, I would not be able to walk or use my hands. STOP LYING.
As I've said repeatedly in this thread, chiropractic can help when bones are actually out of place, such as a pinched nerve or a car crash. Your personal experience doesn't apply to chiropractic as a whole, and I'm sorry that you don't understand that. Take a minute and google chiropractic neck injury or something similar and you might learn something.
All you have us an anecdote. If you had bothered to spend thirty seconds on Google, you would find the actual studies I'm talking about. Instead, you'd rather stay in your bubble at the peak of Mount Dunning-Kruger and call everyone who disagrees with you ignorant.
Whoa, that's a lot to claim without any evidence. All I know from personal experience with medical doctors, dentists, and a chiropractor is that I had 3 different areas of my body that I was advised could only be fixed by surgery. Three separate areas mind you. After seeing 1 chiropractor, I got range of motion in each area immediately. I went every week for 2 years and now it's once every other year. I'm pain free, no surgery needed. To me that's amazing and not deserving of libel.
Osteopathy is technically 'alternative medicine' but in the US they also require a medical degree. They also don't generally focus on cracking things. They helped me a lot
I. This is just plain not true. When performed by a trained licensed professional, the risk of vertebral artery dissection/cardiovascular accident is around 0.5-2 per million treatments with a death rate of 1 per 3.3 million treatments. The max force applied during a joint manipulation is no more than the force used during orthopedic joint tests conducted by physical medicine practitioners (MDs, PTs, and DCs). Correlation does not equal causation. The Cassidy article cited at the end of this-
II. - examines the correlation between stroke victims and visits to chiropractors and PCPs. This study found an increased association between stroke and chiropractic visits AS WELL AS an increased association between stroke and PCP visits (MD, DO, PA, ND). Oh wow so that means that seeing any healthcare provider can cause a stroke?!?! NO. This association exists because of stroke symptoms such as headache, neck pain, vision changes, dizziness, etc. that would warrant seeking care for from-
III. -a healthcare provider that treats those symptoms. To state it simply, a patient with an underlying condition who was going to have a stroke is going to have that stroke regardless of what office they wind up in. It's not the manipulation that causes it. There is a reason why all healthcare providers are trained to take a thorough history and know the signs and symptoms of any predisposing conditions that could increase someone's risk for a cardiovascular accident such as collagen disorder-
IV. like Ehlers-Danlos. In conclusion, correlation does not equal causation. Comments like that spread misinformation and fear that scare people away from something that is relatively low-risk and can help with all sorts of pain causing musculoskeletal conditions. I encourage you to do some reading and not on blogs or news websites. Stick to the peer reviewed stuff and you might be surprised what you find.
As 35 yr chiro patient I'd say I know lots about it. I'm confused why you're so insistent that im wrong about my own experience with a competent and compassionate chiro that gives me pain relief without narcotics. Whats the goal here? Should I try drugs instead?
It's like you're trying to miss the point. Chiropractic did not "start out as science", it started as absolute horseshit with a few good bits sprinkled in. Actual physicians and scientists have mostly weeded out the horseshit, and that's resulted in chiros like the one you go to. Gods, you're fucking tiresome.
Here in Norway it's a part of the official primary health service, and they're licensed like all other medical professionals, and you must be licensed to call yourself a chiropractor. So I'd assume there are some practicing it properly in the US too, with proper education, but from the sounds of it, also some that maybe aren't so legit.
Just remember that allowing chiropractors to be part of the health service was a political decision, not a medical one. No degree of licensing in a field of quackery gives credulity to its quacks. In as much as practicing chiropractic can be done "properly", it involves as much physiotherapy and medical science as possible, and as little chiropractic as possible. While that's been the case with most practitioners in Norway so far, equating them with medical professionals was a mistake IMO.
There is a very small percentage of what chiropractors do that is scientifically sound. In the US, they teach that to D.O.s in one class during their medical school while studying real medicine. The vast majority of chiropractic work is complete bullshit and they believe all of it equally.
3 years ago I would have vehemently agreed. But, awhile back, I did PT for over 6 months with back problems, and it genuinely made it worse (transferred the pain/numbness to the other leg and stronger). Finally went to a high end Chiro in Atlanta and the pain/numbness went away completely after literally 3 weeks. I always thought it was junk too but it worked. Two years later (couple months ago) I started having the feeling again, went to the same chiro twice in a weekend, and it went away.
My pain management specialist said chiros are quacks and tend to accidentally do more damage than help. Not precisely related, but related, I went to a physical therapist who decided to do something to my neck. I had the absolute worst headaches for weeks after that. Screwdriver to the brain shit. He was also a misogynistic biggot who probably would have lost it if he realized I was trans. (I was early in my transition at the time)
I went to one when I was having massive migraines. It was a last resort as several other Medical Doctors told me I was making it up. He never cracked me but he ordered an MRI, which was more than anyone else. Fun fact: because it was ordered by a chiropractor, none of the other doctors will look at my MRI.
It was a chiropractor who ordered x-rays and discovered I had broken my back when I was younger. He then fucked me up so badly I couldn't put on my shoes for two months.
Whaaaat? So the youtube chiros are lying to me? I can't cure my hearing problems by cracking my earlobe? /s In a serious note, I agree with you. My favorite are the videos where they "crack" the earlobe or the upper portion of the pinna to cure hearing impairment(s). As a young scientist, I'm like, "How does that help? What instruments are being utilized to cure the hearing issues that we're not seeing?" As an avid comment section reader, a lot of people believe it without questioning.
The basics of realignment isn't really junk. But there are definitely two very different versions of chiropractic care. There's the pop and crack pretzel people, and the x-rays and physical therapy style care. If you have been to the later you'll know that proper chiropractic works. I've been to both and I'll never go to another pretzel doc again, but the guy i started going to two years ago changed my life.
It's been proven that XRays taken before and after "realignment" are identical when interpreted by an independent clinician. Parts of the physical therapy are the only bits that aren't complete junk. Don't let a chiropractor irradiate you
Been seeing chiros all my life. For every 1 "good" one there are at least 10 quacks. But oh man, when you find a good one it is so worth it. At this point I agree the science is junk, but it's sometimes super helpful to have a PT that can crack the joints and not just do soft tissue work.
You know what they call the bits of chiropractic "care" that have been proven to work? They call it Physical Therapy. So, you know, just do that instead of paying a backsnapper.
I herniated my L4-L5 disc. Physical Therapist charged $110 a session to put a vibrating pad and heated blanked on my back, then do a single yoga pose for 2 minutes. After a half dozen of those sessions I went to a chiropractor. Three $40 appts and I was walking straight. Can't fix soft tissue damage, but fixed all the other kinks in my back and hips that the L4-L5 pain caused (walking crooked and bent over to compensate before). PT and massage is pseudo-science too, don't forget.
It's not.. it just doesn't last unless you rebuild the muscle tissues connecting to the bones to improve your posture. Probably better off doing pt though...
Yeeeeeeeeah. Wifeish and I are smorp people, but our 6 months old kid who wouldn't stop screaming and would whince at every type of contact at the neck and head had us contacting a chiropractor after medicine couldn't help us. This not-doctor started out wanting to do rough physical therapy on my mother fucking infant baby, and when I denied her that without good reasons, she instantly diagnosed him with "psychological trauma from being born through a vagina" which would "necessitate a 1/2
2-8 month long physical therapy plan with a session every week". She wanted to twist(!) and stretch(!) my infant sons spine(!) to alleviate psychological trauma SOMEHOW?? Needles to say I noped the fuck out of there, in an effort to protect my son from this obvious charlatan.
And no, I do not kid you with the diagnosis of "psychological trauma of being born through a vagina". It's not hyperbole or a joke. It's word for word something a practicioner actually said to a desperate, tired-out-of-his-mind dad of a baby who couldn't sleep or eat or stop screaming in pain, in order to scam the family out of some money. In just one contact with these people, all the criticism I've ever heard of chiropractcy was confirmed. It turned out to be milk allergy. Mom hadn't properly
Cut it from her diet when she thought she did. We only found out because the real doctor said to check everything again. Then again. The third time we checked everything, she found the milk contents on some WHEY BROTEIN POWDER. Thanks, actual medical science, with doctors who have ethical standards and actual educations. 4/2
Chiropractic can be hugely beneficial for certain people with certain conditions being worked on by someone who knows wtf they're doing--but most people would just call it "physical therapy" at that point, even if it's using the same techniques. The person my friend with EDS sees so she can live in slightly less agony calls himself a chiropractor. A physical therapist would do the same thing for her, just under a different label.
I would prefer to get my medication from a doctor rather than a guy called itchy Tommy who hangs out under the freeway. Even if the pills might occasionally be the correct ones the quality of care just isn't there.
There is a doctoral degree for chiropractic care. There are plenty of crackpots out there practicing, but I know 2 people who have joint issues that medical doctors could not fix and chiropractors could.
There are some demonstrated benefits (in areas that you would expect - back pain, sports injuries, etc.), but it's generally not significantly better than physical therapy, if at all. If a chiropractor offers to cure your asthma or autism, tell them to fuck off. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4591574/
Yeah, 1) a meta analysis of meta analyses of self reported outcomes, 3) with no mention of a statistical approach, 3) published in the international journal community based nursing and midwifery (SNIP score: 1.96 vs a score of 143.1 for highest possible for that metric) isn't something I would hold up as evidence of "demonstrated" benefits. Go to a physical therapist and skip any practiciner that adheres to a pre-scientic "medicine" label.
How would you suggest compiling data to answer the question "is this broad set of practices good or bad?" That is a meta-meta-analysis question. Their analysis method seems to be "we read the papers" which is what I was looking for. I don't have a better way to discuss this with a character limit. It's fine if you don't particularly trust IJCBNM (I don't either), but they seem to have done the work correctly in this case as they reached a conclusion that's substantially identical to your own.
I agree that peer reviewed studies and therefore proven science is necessary to claim something works unequivocally, but I have personally recovered from a slipped disk and savage sciatica at the same time in my life that I saw a chiro. It's not that science has disproven it.
I had the same issue, herniated disk at the junction where my sciatic came out on my right side, worked construction and I just did stretches in my neighbors pool as per my doctors advice (who discouraged chiropractic adjustments) and it went away in 4 weeks. The issue is not necessarily effectiveness but risk of adverse effects from what is not nearly as regulated as the professional medical field. I use Acupunture as well, and my own acupuncturist warns of charlatanism within his own field
Chiropracty is a medical science that somehow got taken over by the crystals people branding wise. For example, show/race horses it's just an accepted common practice to have your horse go to a chiropractor for horses... because it works. It's not magic, it has its uses and does them well, but won't cure cancer or something.
Fucking Google it. It was founded by a snake oil salesman and is only common because the ACA said doctors had an unfair monopoly on medicine. The ACA is also the largest source of vaccine misinformation in the US.
Uummm? There are good drs and there are bad drs.. your experience doesn't make an entire profession bad. My experience has been relief and way more affective than pills
So a doctorate of chiropractic degree doesn't mean Dr? Why do you spread lies? Did someone disagree with your self diagnosis and now your all butthurt?
Since doctor was used in the context of physician, no, chiropractors are not those doctors. Chiropractors don't attend medical school. It's as relevant as a doctorate in theology.
Respectfully disagree. Though some chiros are complete quacks (If they aren't doing Xrays, if they don't make you do exercises like the video shows, if they rub your wrist and tell you that you need more fish oil....yes...that is called a MAGIC.) I could see my progress on the Xrays and, more importantly, I could feel it as I could sleep, got a serious reduction in headaches, and took my back pain from a 9 to a 1. So, before considering surgery, look for a good (scientific approach) chiropractor
This is why mine is through John's Hopkins. We did all the x-rays and such to find the true problem to my sciatica issues. It has helped immensely. I would not go to someone outside of a medical field.
Couldn't agree more. Mine wouldn't even touch me or discuss an adjustment until a week after he'd had time to view x-rays and a thorough range of motion test. Then, he told me to stretch and lose some weight. I adjust only as needed alongside diet and exercise.
Same. Assessment. Planning. Quarterly reviews with Xrays. 'Homework stretching' and ice/heat treatments after adjustments. Motion tests. It's work but it's worth it.
Agreed. But 'Chiropractic is a licensed health care profession that emphasizes the body's ability to heal itself.' So, you do have to have a license to practice it. I mean, you could just open a clinic and claim to be one but you would not be licensed.
Thank you for the suggestion but I've already gone and gotten relief. I was a sceptic too. I only went as it seemed less invasive than surgery and at a fraction of the cost. Worth checking out, I thought. Not saying all chiros are equal or that they can fix everything/everyone. But they also shouldn't be labeled, overall, as snake-oil salesmen. Maybe I just got lucky but it has made a significant difference in my life.
Chiropractic is snake oil. Some people who bill themselves "chiropractors" are, ironically, in a sense "defrauding" their customers by giving them actual medical care instead of chiropractic.
But you used the word yourself, 'Some.' And I've had terrible experiences with 'some' doctors...but I still go to them. I don't think they are all frauds just because one though my flu was an allergy or another simply gave me painkillers for a bladder infection. TMI, I know. : ) I believe in regulation, not dismissing it outright. That's all I am saying.
Hope they're shielding that thyroid of yours, if not hopefully you're palpating it for lumps. The two major complications of the Chiropractor include vertebral artery dissection (upper spinal manipulation) and cauda equina syndrome (lower spinal manipulation). At present the incidence figures of such events are unfortunately impossible to determine, due to under-reporting, and estimates range from less than 1 in 20,000 (injury) to 1 in 1,000,000 (death);
For some context, Acetaminophen toxicity is the second most common cause of liver transplantation worldwide and the most common in the U.S. It is responsible for 56,000 emergency department visits, 2600 hospitalizations, and 500 deaths per year in the United States. Fifty percent of these are unintentional overdoses. So, ~100 times more likely to have a complication from Tylenol/Paracetamol than chiropractors. Personally, I will not see one, as I've held several cervical spines in my hands,
and they are flimsy. Especially the Axis. Stretching and physiotherapy, and a good massage are my go-to, but you stick with what works for you. There's more research on sham-controlled, double-blind RCTs of the lower spine, and results are inconclusive to favorable toward chronic lower back pain. I doubt a double blind RCT study examining the cervical spine would ever pass an ethical review board, so its poorly researched.
I went to a chiro in south FLA after slipping a disc working out- it was easier to get an MRI script from them than through the primary chain (thanks, US medical system!). Did the whole x-ray thing, did regular visits around the MRI, new X-Ray did show fixed alignment. But this guy was one of those sports ones- shit ton of PGA guys went there. Def are some that are good, just look into them.
Yeah, I think we have an issue of extremes in medicine as well. I hurt my back and was literally bent for a month or so. Traditional doctor just wanted to give me opioids - so I tried chiropractor, he was a quack with "baby chiropractic chakra cleansing" which I noticed after my 'adjustment' which was the exact same adjustment every YouTube chiropractor does and did jack shit. Had to figure it out myself
Agree with you. There are surgeons that have killed people but people still have surgery. Penalize the ones performing malpractice and regulate the field. No one has probably died to physical therapy...but they also haven't helped. So, don't see a chiro...see a dermatologist. It's...safer?
Well, the thing is - yes, doctor errors have killed people. This is true. But chiros specifically are cracking, pressing, and jerking around fairly vital bones. They are *not" doctors. They aren't. If you have back, neck problems - see an ortho. Sometimes a neuro! I mean, that's just my advice. If people wanna get cracked like glowsticks, it's their money and their spines. I personally would not, though.
There in lies the problem.... Medical Doctors have a more meaningful base line.... Chiropractors.. you have no idea what you're going to get. Its a grab bag of fun and the prize you might win is a broken neck.
Agreed with that, at least. Mine is amazing. That is why you have to do your research, ask questions, ensure that they do Xrays and show progress, etc. Some of them are complete 'wizards' complete with special oils and pills. Some of them are using ice, heat, exercises, and technology. I wish they would regulate it more but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Just my opinion based on my own experience, of course.
When it comes to people performing medicine on my body. The 'do your research part' should begin and end with "I am a board certified physician. Other experts have certified I am a medical expert." Not "You have great google reviews."
That's why even people who have gone to medical school... go through things like residency. Its one of they very very few fields where I have confidence that the people who claim they are experts ACTUALLY know what the fuck they are doing.
I think we're justified in dismissing it entirely until they can actual demonstrate the results they claim. Remember that the plural of anecdote isn't data.
True. And like you I wasn't easily sold. But results are seeing Xrays. While me 'believing' the pain is less could be psychosomatic, Xrays don't care about how I feel about them. And, like I said, this could have been all just a....strange coincidence....but I went from 2 hours of sleep and waking to a pain that had be crying out to sleeping normally. I do understand your reservations though. But there was a time where respected doctors thought Humorism was the scientific way.
A chiropractor got my dad, who was mostly wheelchair bound, up into using a walker. And then to a cane. Leave it to Imgur to take nothing else into consideration and blast an entire profession with their blanket observations.
Ya im a little annoyed by the negative chiro comments. Like every profession there are good and bad .. prescription free pain relief and somehow chiros are the bad guys
Exactly. Though I chiro can do damage, it's just a matter of seeing their reviews. I mean...if it's baby's first day at the office, I don't want to be his/her test patient. But unless reviews are 'mass hysteria' then I say it is worth considering. I have friends that either had to have surgery with little longterm relief or were told to just take pain meds forever.
Any chiropractor is just as fallible as any surgeon or "regular doctor". Any adjustment is just as risky as any surgery. That's why they have you sign releases. But people hear big scary sounds of bones being adjusted and equate it to what they see in movies with people's necks being broken. As of late, Imgur is really starting to swing too far to the other side of the tolerance and understanding spectrum.
Nope, this is the problem. "Any adjustment" is absolutely *NOT* "just as risky as any surgery". That's why you're defending chiropractors based on an anecdote, and the rest of us are avoiding them based on statistics. The "conversation" (if you can even call that circlejerk one) you've just had with that other user is an absolute joke.
methadonegirls
I could watch him do this all day
syntheticgod8
Stop promoting bad science.
nnnyyyehhhhhhhhh
I go to PT for my back and these are the exercises they give me to do. They help a lot, are fairly easy to do even if you're in pain, and are not dangerous.
iusedtodream
These are all basic movements from Yoga. They're good, but really y'all should just do yoga.
morrochbeniothe
chiropracty is widely regarded in the medical community to at best have the same impact as crystals, and at worse, actively cause bodily harm. Simple stretches can help but you also gotta know how to stretch in a way that doesn't cause tears or contusions which I wouldn't trust these guys to know how to do.
Silkyninja1
Boneitis is the worst
JuliusPepperwoodFromChicago
https://theoutline.com/post/1617/chiropractors-are-bullshit
Mullensandtheoctopus
I received a pretty bad injury when I was in high school, went to a medical professional and tried to get it fixed, had an MRI and multiple other scans done and they said they couldn't find anything so they put me on a steroid. I couldn't walk without a cane and even sitting would sometimes flare the pain so bad I couldn't think. Went to a chiropractor a family friend recommended and he found the problem in two minutes, re-aligned my hips which had rotated so one leg was longer than the other.
youbetchamom
I had a similar experience. 5 medical docs and lots of meds couldn't fix my constant vertigo. Chiropractor tweaked my neck once and I was fixed. Insurance wouldn't cover it.
Pacuta
At the risk of sounding like a complete and total shill, I want to recommend Jeff Cavaliere, a physical therapist and strength coach, to anyone looking for lots of great, free advice on how to strengthen your entire body the right way. Trust me, he changed my life, and I haven’t given him a dime. Except for his preworkouts, I like those.
executivedisfunction
Another Jeff fan. His base is always anatomy. I also like Mark Wildman. But who am I, besides a 79 yr old who still surfs at every opportunity, mountain bikes, does my old lifeguard swims, etc. Just to get under some skins, without work and more, Self-Understanding (Who else is our case manager, besides themself?), from 3 Good Chiropractors, I'd be just another American couch potato, watching sports on TV. Foundation Training (YT) is another program that works on good back alignment/strength.
Istealfromthefrontpage
Not saying I support it but a while back I had really bad lower back pain and couldn't sit for long had to lay down. Went to a chiropractor, he didn't do any of the neck pull stuff, just had me do some neck stretching stuff and the only weird stretch was had a band on my forehead with weight pulling back and some other support for like 15 min, massage gun on the lower back and more stretching on another machine. It worked and don't have that pain for more than an hour if im on pc long hours.
IAmAMammal
Any "profession" that has its own schools instead of being associated with an actual university is very suspicious. There's a reason universities don't want particular "fields".
BoboTheIceMan
I might have to try this.
MoriMeta
If you dont stretching everyday, dont do it. Or you will become his patient.
420supercoolusername69
Do it! I started an exercise program that does this kind of movement prep as warm ups. I’m 39 and it’s changed my life. Way less back and foot/ankle pain.
ministryofpeace
Which one?
420supercoolusername69
Currently using golf forever. I’ve tried other apps and this is the best for me so far. A lot of focus on mobility and stability.
executivedisfunction
Closely related, probably nearby on his site: Cat rolls, start at cat pose, roll spine from pelvis to neck, ending in Cow pose. Return to Cat, again starting at pelvis. Table top: (Down facing version) on hands and knees, feet extended, hands forward at wrists, back and neck straight. This blends into Balancing Table Top, by extending one arm level to ground, head looking down, then extend opposite side leg, if your back sensations allow. Alternate sides, arm always opposite side from leg. This
executivedisfunction
does much of the work in the post's exercises, more emphasis on lower spine: multifidis, laterus abdomenus and psomas. Spellings 'approximate'.
toledontohinope
GrimNyrah
These stretches are lovely. I get awful tension in my thoracic spine. I go over a foam roller a couple times and it sounds like D Day. Also, those rotations are pretty gentle.
eastend666
My sacroiliac goes out occasionally - it gets all jammed up and gets very uncomfortable. Chiropractors give me so much relief I can't tell you. I can't understand all the negative comments here.
Howmuchistoomuchspam
Chiropractors are fake ass physical therapists with good advertising.
haroldmann
This is legit mobility work prior to weightlifting
zweifel
I did these exercises in physical therapy. I think this guy is a PT, not a chiropractor.
IAmGORT
I'm getting 2 levels of my lower lumbar surgically fused tomorrow. ( just to add to the one I already have fused there). Degenerative kyphosis and bone cancer has really done a number on my spine. 🥺 I'll have more titanium in me than the Space station. Wish me luck! 🤞
5Toner
To everyone slagging on chiros.. get over yourself. I trust my chiro far more than any western medicine quack. Speaking from 20 yrs experience with a fantastic chiro
JuliusPepperwoodFromChicago
Until you need actual medical intervention. Let’s see your chiro perform emergency surgery.
Tamaska
That’s a bad argument. One area of study doesn’t mean they can do anything. Eg a ENT doctor can’t do heart surgery. That said chiropractors can’t do anything.
Kalavier
So you trust your dentist to perform heart exams? If you need emergency surgery you aren't at a chiropractor.
5Toner
Funny you say that, seeing a chiro meant I've never needed surgery. Sure if I needed a lung transplant I wouldn't ask my chiro but I can assure that when my body hurts she's got most the answers. When it's outside her scope she always points me in the right direction, to other medical professionals
Bou77
Never needed surgery, or was discouraged from trying any other treatments so you would keep going back to the chiropractor for 20 years?
Kalavier
Some people have a thing called chronic pain where they had a severely traumatic injury or body condition that means they don't live a day without some form of pain.
Bou77
And they are particularly vulnerable to quackery.
oddoregano
As someone with EDS, I have done these exercises for almost 6 years now and I have gained an inch on my height. The hump is gonna and my neck doesn't hurt nearly as much. I also have a collar bone now. It works.
MrKnabber
Great work and I am happy you made it! I am working on it as well. I hope I will have success as you.
oddoregano
Stick with. Especially on days when it hurts. Those are the days it's the most helpful for me.
MrKnabber
Thank you, I will!
Danack
Gratz of the collar bone. Who did you get it from?
oddoregano
They're from my enemies
Haylett777
To those of you who dislike Chiropractors, you need to understand that there are 2 types. 1 is an actual medical professional who has a doctorate and knows what they're doing and the other is a quack who tries to sell you healing oils and gems while barely understanding anatomy. There's nothing wrong with the first type since when done properly, chiro has helped people. If it was nearly as deadly as you all think, then there would be mass graves behind each office. Quacks exist in any field.
HypnagogicHallucinations
No. The field itself is quackery. It's not evidence based.
nevinera
It's more of a spectrum than "two types", and the big problem is that, to a typical person, most of them can _seem_ like the first type indefinitely. Not only does that mean that the field is effectively full of scammers, it means that _finding_ actually helpful ones requires either a ton of work or referrals from people with good judgement.
JuliusPepperwoodFromChicago
Yeah chiropractors have to go to weeks of school to become a doctor.
server1a
No. Chiropractors are not doctors, unless they have a PhD that's unrelated to Chiro. In Canada they paid the government enough money to call themselves doctors, but you cannot be a real doctor by knowing and studying chiro.
RyvaTheRenamon
No legitimate doctor would refer to themselves as a Chriopractor.
HypnagogicHallucinations
bingotown
Yup now just do all those exercises for 30-45 minutes per day for the rest of your life.
SybilCrawley
My office has a 30 min stretching block added to every employees calendar. Most of us attend the video at the same time and chat while we stretch. It's a great mental break in my day and probably the reason that my body hasn't fused into a seated position.
bobbysucks
For me a 10 min light stretching/yoga/mobility routine was a lifechanger… but a few years ago I wouldn’t have listend to this advice too.
laurafrancesca
Any recommendations?
bingotown
Really just 10? Have any favorite exercises you recommend? I struggle with hamstrings and thoracic mobility but don’t have a ton of time for exercises.
Righteousdew
Mooseman1991
WHHHHY LORD!!!
Righteousdew
Interleaver11111111
That’s what I was looking for.
Righteousdew
He slept with my mama!
toledontohinope
TestSubject06
For those that hate chiropractors, understand that the basic premise is that your spine carries a huge bundle of nerves to most of your body, and your spine doesn't always reset to neutral position after certain impacts or motions. Your muscles compensate by holding the section as still as possible to prevent further nerve disruption. You can also feel the effects in your extremities when affected. A good chiropractor can feel these tense areas and diagnose pain without you telling them about it
TestSubject06
If they can't, then absolutely do not let them adjust you. My grandmother has had an arm put back into its socket due to degenerative ligament strength, followed by PT to re-strengthen the muscles and ligaments. Men's hips are often off balance due to sitting on thick wallets on one side.
5Toner
My chiro knew I was constipated..
slyonegambit
I get people being against Chiros cracking you but these stretches don't seem harmful
HotSauceEnema
This is more physical therapy which is actual medicine
taintedmoons6
If anyone is considering a chiropractor they need to find a physical therapist, or you'll need more than physical therapy to help.
bunnyishungry
I'm so happy, I already do all he says, wahaha
jscuster
There are horrible chiros out there that want to sign you up for two appts a week for the rest of your life. The good ones want to find and fix structural issues and not see you again. If your chiro has framed signed pics from Olympians and pro athletes they treat thanking him/her for contributing to their success? They’re one of the good ones. If your chiro is in a strip mall next to a payday loan store and offers discounts for seeing them 8 times a month? Walk away.
WeaponizedJerk
Olympians go and see physical therapists, not quacks. There’s no good chiros because it’s all made up.
Rystefn
You're right and wrong. It's all made up bullshit, but Olympians and pro athletes go see them anyway. They also do shit like not changing their socks or wearing their underwear backwards because they think it will help them win. Superstition is more rampant in sports than anywhere else that isn't sailing, gambling, or the military.
jscuster
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_chiropractic “Sports Chiropractors specialize in the prevention and care of musculoskeletal injuries. The demand for sports teams to have a Sports Chiropractor is increasing. All 32 teams in the National Football League (NFL) offer chiropractic services. Additionally, 30 teams in Major League Baseball (MLB) utilize chiropractors.”
Rockychunk88
The same MLB that looked the other way when guys like McGwire, Sosa, and Bonds were juicing themselves to comical proportions to allow them to hit more home runs? And the same NFL who for decades ignored the serious CTE problem which has resulted in hundreds of scrambled brains? Sorry, but the fact that the NFL and MLB condone something doesn't legitimatize it to me.
WeaponizedJerk
That’s because it’s actual physical therapy, not quack science.
UffDaDan
I didn't unmute to hear if he was recommending any chiro adjustments so yeah, agree with yeah, good mobility movements and to strengthen the upper back which everyone needs with tech neck and poor posture
DoctorGonzo37
Seemed to be purely PT kinda stuff, saying to make sure you actually move your chest and not just wave your arm about. Audio was OK, no annoying music.
Youhavinagiraffe
There's no real value in good advice if it's coming from an inherently dodgy source like an expert in BS quack therapy. The process of sorting their good advice from bullshit advice involves the same effort as just finding a separate trustworthy source in the first place
detectivekagami
Overall these stretches and exercises don’t seem harmful, but any risk of overextension or exertion, especially if you’re already spinally challenged, is a real possibility. He seems to be demonstrating back/spine stretches and exercises to strive towards, though maybe a disclaimer for *please don’t push for this exact pose on your first try* may have been a good *this coffee is hot* warning before the demonstration.
detectivekagami
When did stretches become quack therapy? I mean I don’t care for 60 second hot takes but I’d be a liar if I didn’t join my grandma with her exercise tapes doing pretty similar stuff. Took a 3rd round of breast cancer to take that little amazon out.
Youhavinagiraffe
Chiropractic is quack therapy. A chiroprsctor advising you to do stretchs is like a homopath telling you to stay hydrated. It's good advice but useless since you only know that because you knew already or because someone with real expertise told you
bryanvangelder
Vouching personally for these stretches. Huge help for me in my PT (double hernia)
TacoPoweredHelicopter
Then see a proper physiotherapist.
detectivekagami
But I might have misread. Are you worried the demonstrated stretches and exercises are in fact dangerous or harmful? I know overdoing or overexertion can make an issue worse, but he seems to be demonstrating goals/prevention. Can you clarify?
zztophat1
Hi! I'm doing physical therapy, under the supervision of an actual doctor for neck and shoulder pain, that open book type exercise is one he has me doing for my shoulder mobility.
Azkle
But this is free and doesn't require seeing a real person.
detectivekagami
I mean ya if you need PT, go see a PT. The exercise/stretches demonstrated are logical to improve spinal health. If I just have back pain from sitting like a literal shrimp at a desk for 4+ hrs a day, I just would do this stuff, not get told 2 months after a PT wellness referral that my insurance doesn’t cover almost this exact stuff. Source: doctor parent, and I worked in medical rehabilitation assistance and supervise/witnessed both PT and OT visits with (lower challenge) version of this.
slyonegambit
I'm not saying because these stretches are good then chiropractors are good, I'm saying that just because chiropractors are then that shouldn't discredit the benefits of these specific stretches
Starbase80
Easier to be a Chiro than being a burger flipper at McD's. Just skip the middle man and go to physical therapy. They are bordeline useless.
shortlegcat
A chiropractor near me literally was a burger flipper before paying $200 for a "licence" to practice. It's always worth checking people's backgrounds...
eronth
The problem with chiropracty is that it's essentially unregulated. There are way less stringent rules on how to run a chiropractic practice than other medical practices, meaning you can get quacks and no real way to report them
Philmountie
Chiropractors can be good if they stick to adjustments and anatomy, but they tend to stray into things like curing diabetes or strep
DiskettesAndGravy
No, it isn't a medical science. They can't be good when they practice something fundamentally flawed. Physical therapy and massages are great if your back is having issues. Chiropractic care is not and will put you at risk for issues down the road.
wadatahmydamie
It’s unregulated *and* it’s pure quackery.
emigrant22
the ghosts told them how to cure deafness!
5NoteHalf
Yeah, we've got a few (good) chiropractors as (I.T.) clients, and they'll tell you straight up, the quacks give all of them a REALLY bad name. Good chiro will recommend P.T. style stretches, take X-rays/CT scans, etc. Bad ones grab, yank, crack and don't ask questions.
Rystefn
Saying "less regulated than other medical practices" is incorrect. Chiro isn't a medical practice. It's astrology for your back.
eronth
Ehh, I see where you're coming from, but it is a "medical practice" in the sense that they're attempting to help heal your body. It's just that a lot of the more wild cures have literally 0 evidence-based backing. So it's a "medical practice", but no more rigorously proven than the "medical practice" of whatever bullshit I want to come up with to help people.
Rystefn
It's a medical practice like the person selling you magic crystals or reading your tea leaves is a medical practice. So, it's not a medical practice. At all. None of it is evidence based, and if they ever get anything right, it's entirely by accident.
Kalavier
Somebody has literally only ever seen the quacks and never actually looked at any real chiropractors.
ourari
It looks good, but who is this guy and what are his qualifications?
TychoTychoAlba
And does he have any other videos I could watch
NightOwlRally
don't worry, they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true
detectivekagami
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health. No chiro nonsense involved.
LeroyShabazAli
He stayed at a holiday inn express last night.
sjoera
I’m surprised to see an American with an actual ass. He must be qualified.
ourari
Ik let niet op dat soort dingen. Jij gelukkig wel! Kunnen we met een gerust hart deze oefeningen volgen.
mmontour
He’s a backologist.
Wangthunder
I... Forgot... That I Had.... Boneitis!
BIC777
cultus
you are asking the right question!
hightechpirate
He's a stranger on the internet, what more qualifications does he need?
Nizlee
Dr. Booty
JackHL01
Dracon27
FormerlySable
If it helps, two different certified physical therapists had me doing the same exercises for my spine issues.
Fatbird
Actual, real physical therapists are so damn underrated. I went in for chronic shoulder pain and they gave me a very short list of stretches and exercises to do. I can do all of them sitting down in five minutes. No more shoulder pain. But getting an appointment with one is so hard, I wish it was something like a dentist where I could just roll up and say "Hey what should I do when it hurts when I go like this?". Instead I have to go through doctors for months to get to one.
ghettobutter
Isn’t the healthcare system in the US so great? /s
NotLuckyDucky
I’m glad I get to see my last physical therapist (different issue) because I’d just show and while doing the stretches I’d ask about any other weird pain I felt daily and how I could help it and he’d throw those exercises at me too so I’d walk away feeling even better.
ourari
Yes, it does :)
retailmemedrone
Chiropractors is Bunk. We had a kid not even 23 go see one because they offered a “free adjustment” that adjustment caused a spinal injury and now he is on welfare because if he stands for more than 20 minutes he has a seizure, and he only has partial control of his legs.
The3rdwheel
ill risk it. because im already bent so far out of shape . the worst that happens is i end up in a wheelchair. which would fix most of my back issues
jimplaysgames10
Go to a physiotherapist first
StepOnTheSun
I think it depends on which one and the type of schooling they require. I had one who figured out I had pancreatic cancer 6 months before it was actually diagnosed. Another took me from 10+ years of complex regional pain syndrome to pain free in less than a year.
terribletruth
It bothers me that they're presented as real MDs doing real procedures. I thought they were actual doctors until I was ~20.
Philmountie
Most have doctorate degree, so they are real doctors, just not physicians or “medical doctors” with an MD degree
thingifound
I had one in high school. They helped with pain from a high contact sport I did. But idk. They always tried to sell me junk science crap. I just wanted a high powered back pop
detectivekagami
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health, or a little update if you sit like a literal shrimp at your desk half the day. No chiro nonsense involved.
PrincessWendyB
Since we are flinging anecdotes, I've gotten chiro practice care for 20 years and it relieves my pain. It FUCKING WORKS if you have a competent, TRAINED practitioner.
Hebbelille
Be careful, I tried to argue there are some who do a good job and got downvoted. My chiro found out my left foot was 12mm too short, resulting in crooked spine and neck pain. No doctors have figured that out, I would have gone my whole life without knowing it if not for him. My dad, who has massive hip pain sat down with him for 5 minutes and he went "I know what it is" took an x-ray of hip, ball joint is completely wilted. Doctors tunnel visioned on prolapsed spine disk for years...
Hebbelille
Now, I believe Chiros should only be used as a tool to get better, not as a return to get adjusted regularly. If you're healthy you shouldn't need to. My chiro share those views, helping me with exercises do adjust spine, got me sole insert for left foot. Minimal adjustments since my body is pretty healthy overall, just a bit stiff from the years (30) of imbalanced shorter leg.
Kalavier
My dad sees one a lot to help with his many issues and it honestly relieves his pain and keeps him in better shape. I see the same one once a month these days just to ensure I don't end up wrenching something out of place thanks to some childhood spinal trauma that means when something goes wrong, it really goes wrong. She doesn't do the whole *CRACK SNAPPLE POP* shit, and even has papers out on her front desk explicitly saying what she does and what it will not do. Things like "I make adjusts
Kalavier
adjustments to help get your body in better function and heal naturally, This will not treat sickness or heal wounds."
oddoregano
That sounds like a good chiro
PrincessWendyB
Depends on the injury. The damaged disc in my neck is incapable of healing itself; it cannot be unruptured, so I will need life long adjustments for relief of CHRONIC pain.
Kalavier
Sounds like my dad. Chronic hand pain from it being crushed by a tractor hitch and never properly healed so it's all scarred tissue, and she helps with that and back pains that his stimulator can't deal with. Is a great quality of life benefit for him. She also treats me since I have to bend over to floor level a lot and have minor spine trauma from childhood. It also serves to keep me very aware of posture and trying to avoid certain movements.
foreverinchains
Never let any chiropractor touch your head or neck. The sudden motion of cracking your neck can tear major blood vessels, and you might die immediately or even hours later. It's happened too often already.
detectivekagami
I was in a not-my-fault simple fender bender when I was 18 headed to a midterm test. Open shut case, she got a fat ticket for bumping me, whatever. Within a week, three chiropractors magically knew my phone number.
STGxDante
It's true I've died 3 times this way
potatoardvarkhybrid
"bUT thEY Are doCtOrs!!!"
foreverinchains
TheDudeanator
So you are offering millennials a way to die?
detectivekagami
Fuck chiropractors. I know too many medical professionals to just trust a dude with a yoga attitude about trying to snap my nonexistent ear tendon.
fitgirl1
An important fact to know about ANY health care provider is that you as the patient are in charge and you need to give consent and you can revoke consent. It is your body after all. There is an assumption of consent and they are an authority so people often just go along with it. But for doctors, physical therapy, chiropractic, massage therapy or podiatry whatever it is don't do or consent to stuff without understanding it and it's risks and feeling comfortable enough to proceed
timesupmakeachoice
More injuries happen in primary care than in chiropractic: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4326543/
GeraltsUnpaidIntern
The only chiros I'll allow are horse chiros, because they essentially train horses to allow handling and give them massages to help them relax (the vast majority of horses could benefit from some relaxation). Then again, they're not violently wrenching horse heads around, either.
compu85
This looks more like a PT office.
xRHIN0x
Looks almost exactly like the chiro office I go to.
IHaveMoreImportantThingsToDo
In Australia, chiropractors have to go to university and are all registered and covered by private health insurance. This doesn't happen here.
ignimbrite
Even still, I'd rather go see a physiotherapist than a chiro.
detectivekagami
Though, for perspective, the stretches/exercises shown here are practical Physical Therapy *goals* for general spine health. No chiro nonsense involved.
Volimar
Are you sure? Are you sure I shouldn't go in and get a strap around my neck that the chiro can then pull so hard it yeets my spine right out the window?
hikalabash9000
I allow mine to all the time. These are my exact hopes. Thank you for the affirmation!
jerbern1
So my back gets popped AND I could die? Win/win sign me up!
UnBobaLievable
Yeah I always make sure they are using an activator on my neck - no twisting or popping, just adjusting
LoneWulf17
TheCrusher78
I have great luck with them. Guess I've never had a bad one
jeepmare
Don't you fukn threaten me with a good time
SpectreA19
And I'm fine with that. Neck go click-clack and make the happy chemicals in brain.
foreverinchains
Sure, right up until the spontaneous cervical artery dissection. Then your brain stops making happy chemicals, sad chemicals, and any other chemicals. Forever.
Sausageneek
That sounds awesome tbh.
JustTryingToLiveLife
Chiropractors are always dumb because it involves getting relief from moving something far out of what the range of motion is suppose to be doing, this video is great though cuz its teaching you how to fix this with actual exercise movements
youbetchamom
I've been getting adjustments for 40 years. You're an idiot.
jimplaysgames10
Hey everyone, forget science this guy has an ANECDOTE!
foreverinchains
The plural of anecdote is not data, and just in this thread there are several anecdotes of opposite experiences to yours. Your personal experience does not apply across the board, so maybe shut the fuck up.
SavageDrums
Never let any chiropractor touch you at all. Fucking witch doctors.
PrincessWendyB
I have cervical radiculopathy. Never in my 67 years have I heard such nonsense. You cited no source! Without chiropractic adjustments, I would not be able to walk or use my hands. STOP LYING.
foreverinchains
As I've said repeatedly in this thread, chiropractic can help when bones are actually out of place, such as a pinched nerve or a car crash. Your personal experience doesn't apply to chiropractic as a whole, and I'm sorry that you don't understand that. Take a minute and google chiropractic neck injury or something similar and you might learn something.
PrincessWendyB
Stop projecting your ignorant beliefs as FACTS. All you have is an opinion, and it is an uninformed one.
foreverinchains
All you have us an anecdote. If you had bothered to spend thirty seconds on Google, you would find the actual studies I'm talking about. Instead, you'd rather stay in your bubble at the peak of Mount Dunning-Kruger and call everyone who disagrees with you ignorant.
PrincessWendyB
I stand by my reply. Deal with it.
CherrySnowCone
Whoa, that's a lot to claim without any evidence. All I know from personal experience with medical doctors, dentists, and a chiropractor is that I had 3 different areas of my body that I was advised could only be fixed by surgery. Three separate areas mind you. After seeing 1 chiropractor, I got range of motion in each area immediately. I went every week for 2 years and now it's once every other year. I'm pain free, no surgery needed. To me that's amazing and not deserving of libel.
ekstrax
You guys seems to have a lot of shit chiropractors
Qpnao
Osteopathy is technically 'alternative medicine' but in the US they also require a medical degree. They also don't generally focus on cracking things. They helped me a lot
TallynNyntyg
How many times has it happened to you so far?
heyyougetyourdamnhandsoffher
I. This is just plain not true. When performed by a trained licensed professional, the risk of vertebral artery dissection/cardiovascular accident is around 0.5-2 per million treatments with a death rate of 1 per 3.3 million treatments. The max force applied during a joint manipulation is no more than the force used during orthopedic joint tests conducted by physical medicine practitioners (MDs, PTs, and DCs). Correlation does not equal causation. The Cassidy article cited at the end of this-
heyyougetyourdamnhandsoffher
II. - examines the correlation between stroke victims and visits to chiropractors and PCPs. This study found an increased association between stroke and chiropractic visits AS WELL AS an increased association between stroke and PCP visits (MD, DO, PA, ND). Oh wow so that means that seeing any healthcare provider can cause a stroke?!?! NO. This association exists because of stroke symptoms such as headache, neck pain, vision changes, dizziness, etc. that would warrant seeking care for from-
heyyougetyourdamnhandsoffher
III. -a healthcare provider that treats those symptoms. To state it simply, a patient with an underlying condition who was going to have a stroke is going to have that stroke regardless of what office they wind up in. It's not the manipulation that causes it. There is a reason why all healthcare providers are trained to take a thorough history and know the signs and symptoms of any predisposing conditions that could increase someone's risk for a cardiovascular accident such as collagen disorder-
heyyougetyourdamnhandsoffher
IV. like Ehlers-Danlos. In conclusion, correlation does not equal causation. Comments like that spread misinformation and fear that scare people away from something that is relatively low-risk and can help with all sorts of pain causing musculoskeletal conditions. I encourage you to do some reading and not on blogs or news websites. Stick to the peer reviewed stuff and you might be surprised what you find.
heyyougetyourdamnhandsoffher
V. I wouldn't have gone into this profession if it had a high risk of killing people. If you made it this far perhaps you are willing to go a little further: 1.Systematic review- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27014532/. 2. Cassidy article - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S.sci">ed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27014532/10">.sci">ed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27014532/a>. 2. Cassidy article - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1052305716304347. 3. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25596875/#:~:text=Results%3A%20The%20proportion%20of%20subjects,per%201000%20at%2030%20days. 4. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25104849/
altxatu
Never go to chiropractor period. They’re not medical doctors. The entire field of chiropractic medicine is based on pure weapons grade bolognium.
5Toner
Worst advise ever.. you have no idea what you're talking about
foreverinchains
Here, do some reading. You shouldn't argue about topics you know nothing about. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiropractic
5Toner
As 35 yr chiro patient I'd say I know lots about it. I'm confused why you're so insistent that im wrong about my own experience with a competent and compassionate chiro that gives me pain relief without narcotics. Whats the goal here? Should I try drugs instead?
foreverinchains
It's like you're trying to miss the point. Chiropractic did not "start out as science", it started as absolute horseshit with a few good bits sprinkled in. Actual physicians and scientists have mostly weeded out the horseshit, and that's resulted in chiros like the one you go to. Gods, you're fucking tiresome.
LadyNetrex
Here in Norway it's a part of the official primary health service, and they're licensed like all other medical professionals, and you must be licensed to call yourself a chiropractor. So I'd assume there are some practicing it properly in the US too, with proper education, but from the sounds of it, also some that maybe aren't so legit.
whathavewehere
Just remember that allowing chiropractors to be part of the health service was a political decision, not a medical one. No degree of licensing in a field of quackery gives credulity to its quacks. In as much as practicing chiropractic can be done "properly", it involves as much physiotherapy and medical science as possible, and as little chiropractic as possible. While that's been the case with most practitioners in Norway so far, equating them with medical professionals was a mistake IMO.
tinydog
SomeDetroitGuy
There is a very small percentage of what chiropractors do that is scientifically sound. In the US, they teach that to D.O.s in one class during their medical school while studying real medicine. The vast majority of chiropractic work is complete bullshit and they believe all of it equally.
EccentricNimoy
Forever using the phrase "Weapons grade bolognium"!
MichaeIScott
3 years ago I would have vehemently agreed. But, awhile back, I did PT for over 6 months with back problems, and it genuinely made it worse (transferred the pain/numbness to the other leg and stronger). Finally went to a high end Chiro in Atlanta and the pain/numbness went away completely after literally 3 weeks. I always thought it was junk too but it worked. Two years later (couple months ago) I started having the feeling again, went to the same chiro twice in a weekend, and it went away.
MichaeIScott
Wasn’t placebo either, because I fully expected PT to work and for chiro to fail.
valkyrie117
Lmao
TheFakeCraigFerguson
My pain management specialist said chiros are quacks and tend to accidentally do more damage than help. Not precisely related, but related, I went to a physical therapist who decided to do something to my neck. I had the absolute worst headaches for weeks after that. Screwdriver to the brain shit. He was also a misogynistic biggot who probably would have lost it if he realized I was trans. (I was early in my transition at the time)
TheRealSprackle
Am I allowed to crack my own neck like tough guys do in the movies? Cause it honestly feels amazing when I do and it's kinda fun to freak people out.
foreverinchains
You can do whatever the fuck you want with or to your own body.
Uprightcerebralyacht
I went to one when I was having massive migraines. It was a last resort as several other Medical Doctors told me I was making it up. He never cracked me but he ordered an MRI, which was more than anyone else. Fun fact: because it was ordered by a chiropractor, none of the other doctors will look at my MRI.
FlyingGiantElk
The quality of the MRI is dependent on who ordered it, you learn that in med school. Didn’t they tell you that? /s
foreverinchains
It was a chiropractor who ordered x-rays and discovered I had broken my back when I was younger. He then fucked me up so badly I couldn't put on my shoes for two months.
tentacularfleshscape
That was a rollercoaster
foreverinchains
That's honestly one of the least fucked up medical stories I have.
tentacularfleshscape
Well kudos to you for surviving it all at least enough to be able to use imgur
BenderSaysNeat
Remember, kids; chiropractic is junk science.
5Toner
You have no idea what you're talking about
420supercoolusername69
This isn’t chiro science tho. It’s called movement prep or dynamic warmups. Part of any regular exercise or recovery routine.
ablamboo2
A chiropractor fixed my aching fucked up lower back which was causing me agony for 30 years. So, no.
HannibalLectersCatMittens
Whaaaat? So the youtube chiros are lying to me? I can't cure my hearing problems by cracking my earlobe? /s In a serious note, I agree with you. My favorite are the videos where they "crack" the earlobe or the upper portion of the pinna to cure hearing impairment(s). As a young scientist, I'm like, "How does that help? What instruments are being utilized to cure the hearing issues that we're not seeing?" As an avid comment section reader, a lot of people believe it without questioning.
MichaelCBennett
The basics of realignment isn't really junk. But there are definitely two very different versions of chiropractic care. There's the pop and crack pretzel people, and the x-rays and physical therapy style care. If you have been to the later you'll know that proper chiropractic works. I've been to both and I'll never go to another pretzel doc again, but the guy i started going to two years ago changed my life.
goonislovegoonislife
It's been proven that XRays taken before and after "realignment" are identical when interpreted by an independent clinician. Parts of the physical therapy are the only bits that aren't complete junk. Don't let a chiropractor irradiate you
crazyspelling
Been seeing chiros all my life. For every 1 "good" one there are at least 10 quacks. But oh man, when you find a good one it is so worth it. At this point I agree the science is junk, but it's sometimes super helpful to have a PT that can crack the joints and not just do soft tissue work.
Eldibs
You know what they call the bits of chiropractic "care" that have been proven to work? They call it Physical Therapy. So, you know, just do that instead of paying a backsnapper.
disgruntledtruckdriver
I herniated my L4-L5 disc. Physical Therapist charged $110 a session to put a vibrating pad and heated blanked on my back, then do a single yoga pose for 2 minutes. After a half dozen of those sessions I went to a chiropractor. Three $40 appts and I was walking straight. Can't fix soft tissue damage, but fixed all the other kinks in my back and hips that the L4-L5 pain caused (walking crooked and bent over to compensate before). PT and massage is pseudo-science too, don't forget.
Eldibs
Ah yes, your anecdote is definitely the same as hard data!
disgruntledtruckdriver
I didn't claim it was hard data. I shared my experience lmfao
Turdsandwich10
It's not.. it just doesn't last unless you rebuild the muscle tissues connecting to the bones to improve your posture. Probably better off doing pt though...
QuitLookinAtMineAim
I know what you are saying, but I have one guy that I trust and has helped me recover from incredible pain a few times.
QuitLookinAtMineAim
That said, I don't think I'd let anyone else mess with my back like that.
beoluves
It was also probably through several sessions, he didn't just snapped your neck day one
lunatic02
You take all your antibiotics in one dose as well you fucking moron?
QuitLookinAtMineAim
The bad problems can take 2-4 sessions, but now I know the signs and go early-- usually need just one. Less "bad" muscle memory to reverse.
NorthmanoftheNorth
Yeeeeeeeeah. Wifeish and I are smorp people, but our 6 months old kid who wouldn't stop screaming and would whince at every type of contact at the neck and head had us contacting a chiropractor after medicine couldn't help us. This not-doctor started out wanting to do rough physical therapy on my mother fucking infant baby, and when I denied her that without good reasons, she instantly diagnosed him with "psychological trauma from being born through a vagina" which would "necessitate a 1/2
5Toner
Sounds like bs to me
NorthmanoftheNorth
2-8 month long physical therapy plan with a session every week". She wanted to twist(!) and stretch(!) my infant sons spine(!) to alleviate psychological trauma SOMEHOW?? Needles to say I noped the fuck out of there, in an effort to protect my son from this obvious charlatan.
NorthmanoftheNorth
And no, I do not kid you with the diagnosis of "psychological trauma of being born through a vagina". It's not hyperbole or a joke. It's word for word something a practicioner actually said to a desperate, tired-out-of-his-mind dad of a baby who couldn't sleep or eat or stop screaming in pain, in order to scam the family out of some money. In just one contact with these people, all the criticism I've ever heard of chiropractcy was confirmed. It turned out to be milk allergy. Mom hadn't properly
NorthmanoftheNorth
Cut it from her diet when she thought she did. We only found out because the real doctor said to check everything again. Then again. The third time we checked everything, she found the milk contents on some WHEY BROTEIN POWDER. Thanks, actual medical science, with doctors who have ethical standards and actual educations. 4/2
Tisimish
Chiropractic can be hugely beneficial for certain people with certain conditions being worked on by someone who knows wtf they're doing--but most people would just call it "physical therapy" at that point, even if it's using the same techniques. The person my friend with EDS sees so she can live in slightly less agony calls himself a chiropractor. A physical therapist would do the same thing for her, just under a different label.
thegrimtrigger
Physical therapy is based on science, not quackery like Chiro.
5Toner
Physical therapy almost crippled me, a chiro had me walking within 2 days. The only quack here is you
thegrimtrigger
Nah, it’s pretty well known that chiro is quackery. But I’m glad you had a good result, friend.
5Toner
I disagree
LasciviousHedgehog
I would prefer to get my medication from a doctor rather than a guy called itchy Tommy who hangs out under the freeway. Even if the pills might occasionally be the correct ones the quality of care just isn't there.
5Toner
Unbelievable. Chiropractic medicine is far better than pills
strangeassfiction
Woooosh
Firebirdsroost
There is a doctoral degree for chiropractic care. There are plenty of crackpots out there practicing, but I know 2 people who have joint issues that medical doctors could not fix and chiropractors could.
weirdcalculator
There are some demonstrated benefits (in areas that you would expect - back pain, sports injuries, etc.), but it's generally not significantly better than physical therapy, if at all. If a chiropractor offers to cure your asthma or autism, tell them to fuck off. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4591574/
OnyxApollion
Yeah, 1) a meta analysis of meta analyses of self reported outcomes, 3) with no mention of a statistical approach, 3) published in the international journal community based nursing and midwifery (SNIP score: 1.96 vs a score of 143.1 for highest possible for that metric) isn't something I would hold up as evidence of "demonstrated" benefits. Go to a physical therapist and skip any practiciner that adheres to a pre-scientic "medicine" label.
weirdcalculator
How would you suggest compiling data to answer the question "is this broad set of practices good or bad?" That is a meta-meta-analysis question. Their analysis method seems to be "we read the papers" which is what I was looking for. I don't have a better way to discuss this with a character limit. It's fine if you don't particularly trust IJCBNM (I don't either), but they seem to have done the work correctly in this case as they reached a conclusion that's substantially identical to your own.
MrNecrophile
I agree that peer reviewed studies and therefore proven science is necessary to claim something works unequivocally, but I have personally recovered from a slipped disk and savage sciatica at the same time in my life that I saw a chiro. It's not that science has disproven it.
Churchofthesubgenius
I had the same issue, herniated disk at the junction where my sciatic came out on my right side, worked construction and I just did stretches in my neighbors pool as per my doctors advice (who discouraged chiropractic adjustments) and it went away in 4 weeks. The issue is not necessarily effectiveness but risk of adverse effects from what is not nearly as regulated as the professional medical field. I use Acupunture as well, and my own acupuncturist warns of charlatanism within his own field
oblimo
Chiropracty is based on bodily energy flows that neither flow, nor exist. Such benefits you've received are awesome, but purely coincidental.
GaySocialistLiberalMuslimCommieAtheist
Chiropracty is a medical science that somehow got taken over by the crystals people branding wise. For example, show/race horses it's just an accepted common practice to have your horse go to a chiropractor for horses... because it works. It's not magic, it has its uses and does them well, but won't cure cancer or something.
oblimo
Bullshit. It was invented in the late 1800s by DD Palmer as part of the vitalism craze.
YouAreTheInsultMaster
I think you are thinking of something else
oblimo
Google DD Palmer and "vitalism" and you will see what I'm talking about.
MrFancyPanzer
Yeah, I'm never letting them near my neck, there are exercises you can do instead.
medimr
The stretches and stuff he's demonstrating here seem fine. Just stay away from the direct manipulation and cracking.
5Toner
Are you aware it's possible to adjust a spine without twisting or cracking? So many narrow minds commenting here and you're not helping
ilovebigmutts
Source?
Danimalalias
Fucking Google it. It was founded by a snake oil salesman and is only common because the ACA said doctors had an unfair monopoly on medicine. The ACA is also the largest source of vaccine misinformation in the US.
ilovebigmutts
I got ghosts in my head, take my lithium or trepanning?
EgglyBagelface
My doc used to he a ER doc and has seen multiple broken necks and seizures that have led to deaths due to neck cracking.
hesuitedup
This is probably from people cracking themselves based on some garbage they saw on tik tok
5Toner
Sounds like a bag a bs.. I don't believe a word of it
EgglyBagelface
Ok
5Toner
Uummm? There are good drs and there are bad drs.. your experience doesn't make an entire profession bad. My experience has been relief and way more affective than pills
jimplaysgames10
They literally are not doctors
foreverinchains
They are doctors in the sense that they have a doctorate, but they're as much a doctor in the physician sense as a doctor of theology.
foreverinchains
Chiropractors are not doctors. The plural of anecdote is not data.
5Toner
So a doctorate of chiropractic degree doesn't mean Dr? Why do you spread lies? Did someone disagree with your self diagnosis and now your all butthurt?
jimplaysgames10
A doctor of paleontology isn't a medical doctor either.
foreverinchains
Since doctor was used in the context of physician, no, chiropractors are not those doctors. Chiropractors don't attend medical school. It's as relevant as a doctorate in theology.
5Toner
So you're butthurt then. . Good to know
lunatic02
Incorrect statement as always, Karen.
foreverinchains
Don't take my word for it. Take a moment, open your preferred web search, and look it up. You might fucking learn something.
Tamaska
Do you believe chiropractors haven’t killed anyone? Because they have.
lunatic02
Chiropractors have never pushed opioids onto anyone, MDs have killed people and also fueled the opioid epidemic, which is worse in this case?
Tamaska
Opioids have legitimate uses. Chiropractors have none.
InViUnius
Respectfully disagree. Though some chiros are complete quacks (If they aren't doing Xrays, if they don't make you do exercises like the video shows, if they rub your wrist and tell you that you need more fish oil....yes...that is called a MAGIC.) I could see my progress on the Xrays and, more importantly, I could feel it as I could sleep, got a serious reduction in headaches, and took my back pain from a 9 to a 1. So, before considering surgery, look for a good (scientific approach) chiropractor
Hedgehogsareadorable
This is why mine is through John's Hopkins. We did all the x-rays and such to find the true problem to my sciatica issues. It has helped immensely. I would not go to someone outside of a medical field.
hikalabash9000
Couldn't agree more. Mine wouldn't even touch me or discuss an adjustment until a week after he'd had time to view x-rays and a thorough range of motion test. Then, he told me to stretch and lose some weight. I adjust only as needed alongside diet and exercise.
InViUnius
Same. Assessment. Planning. Quarterly reviews with Xrays. 'Homework stretching' and ice/heat treatments after adjustments. Motion tests. It's work but it's worth it.
Qpnao
In that case, they should require certain standards in order to practice as a chiropractor
InViUnius
Agreed. But 'Chiropractic is a licensed health care profession that emphasizes the body's ability to heal itself.' So, you do have to have a license to practice it. I mean, you could just open a clinic and claim to be one but you would not be licensed.
TheBigKahuna
Seriously. Same here. 1 love to all the real chirps out there. Saved my life
wadatahmydamie
The plural of anecdote isn’t data. Chiropractic “medicine” is quackery, just like any placebo. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD005427.pub2/abstract
mithiwithi
In short, chiropractors are fine as long as they're not actually practicing chiropractic.
5Toner
Agreed, a chiro saved me where all others failed.. 20 yrs later I still see her 1 per week
SavageDrums
Well, at least your witch doctor has steady income...
SomeDetroitGuy
See a D.O. instead. They learn the tiny sliver of chiropractic care that actually works plus learn everything an MD learns.
InViUnius
Thank you for the suggestion but I've already gone and gotten relief. I was a sceptic too. I only went as it seemed less invasive than surgery and at a fraction of the cost. Worth checking out, I thought. Not saying all chiros are equal or that they can fix everything/everyone. But they also shouldn't be labeled, overall, as snake-oil salesmen. Maybe I just got lucky but it has made a significant difference in my life.
mithiwithi
Chiropractic is snake oil. Some people who bill themselves "chiropractors" are, ironically, in a sense "defrauding" their customers by giving them actual medical care instead of chiropractic.
InViUnius
But you used the word yourself, 'Some.' And I've had terrible experiences with 'some' doctors...but I still go to them. I don't think they are all frauds just because one though my flu was an allergy or another simply gave me painkillers for a bladder infection. TMI, I know. : ) I believe in regulation, not dismissing it outright. That's all I am saying.
myotheralt
What you are describing is a physical therapist.
DoctorDerk
Hope they're shielding that thyroid of yours, if not hopefully you're palpating it for lumps. The two major complications of the Chiropractor include vertebral artery dissection (upper spinal manipulation) and cauda equina syndrome (lower spinal manipulation). At present the incidence figures of such events are unfortunately impossible to determine, due to under-reporting, and estimates range from less than 1 in 20,000 (injury) to 1 in 1,000,000 (death);
DoctorDerk
For some context, Acetaminophen toxicity is the second most common cause of liver transplantation worldwide and the most common in the U.S. It is responsible for 56,000 emergency department visits, 2600 hospitalizations, and 500 deaths per year in the United States. Fifty percent of these are unintentional overdoses. So, ~100 times more likely to have a complication from Tylenol/Paracetamol than chiropractors. Personally, I will not see one, as I've held several cervical spines in my hands,
DoctorDerk
and they are flimsy. Especially the Axis. Stretching and physiotherapy, and a good massage are my go-to, but you stick with what works for you. There's more research on sham-controlled, double-blind RCTs of the lower spine, and results are inconclusive to favorable toward chronic lower back pain. I doubt a double blind RCT study examining the cervical spine would ever pass an ethical review board, so its poorly researched.
DoctorDerk
But back to the X-ray. Probably should stop that, as the radiation isn't worth it. And hopefully it isn't every session.
aspriringcatlady
Okay I may get downvoted but the chiropractor was the only thing that made my back pain go away. The neck cracking still freaks me the fuck out though
esopillar34
I went to a chiro in south FLA after slipping a disc working out- it was easier to get an MRI script from them than through the primary chain (thanks, US medical system!). Did the whole x-ray thing, did regular visits around the MRI, new X-Ray did show fixed alignment. But this guy was one of those sports ones- shit ton of PGA guys went there. Def are some that are good, just look into them.
FancyFeastAdvocate
Yeah, I think we have an issue of extremes in medicine as well. I hurt my back and was literally bent for a month or so. Traditional doctor just wanted to give me opioids - so I tried chiropractor, he was a quack with "baby chiropractic chakra cleansing" which I noticed after my 'adjustment' which was the exact same adjustment every YouTube chiropractor does and did jack shit. Had to figure it out myself
Spiderbutts
Chiropractors have killed people. It's best to seek out a physical therapist and not risk it.
CatEyebrows
There are 26 confirmed deaths attributed to chiropractic treatment
nobleImaginationWrecker
That's it?? There are 26 chiropractors in my city alone! (In case it wasn't obvious, that was a hyperbole)
CatEyebrows
That’s it!! 26 confirmed. They say the # might be bigger because of unreported or unknown deaths
Azkle
So have doctors? So have fast food workers? So have accountants? Should I see a physical therapist instead of them also?
InViUnius
Agree with you. There are surgeons that have killed people but people still have surgery. Penalize the ones performing malpractice and regulate the field. No one has probably died to physical therapy...but they also haven't helped. So, don't see a chiro...see a dermatologist. It's...safer?
Spiderbutts
Well, the thing is - yes, doctor errors have killed people. This is true. But chiros specifically are cracking, pressing, and jerking around fairly vital bones. They are *not" doctors. They aren't. If you have back, neck problems - see an ortho. Sometimes a neuro! I mean, that's just my advice. If people wanna get cracked like glowsticks, it's their money and their spines. I personally would not, though.
WhiskeyKing
Yes. Your local McDonald's worker is also not a medical professional and should be avoided when seeking medical assistance.
FluroShoes
But I already paid for my mc nuggets and appendectomy combo
nanyatenyaa
There in lies the problem.... Medical Doctors have a more meaningful base line.... Chiropractors.. you have no idea what you're going to get. Its a grab bag of fun and the prize you might win is a broken neck.
InViUnius
Agreed with that, at least. Mine is amazing. That is why you have to do your research, ask questions, ensure that they do Xrays and show progress, etc. Some of them are complete 'wizards' complete with special oils and pills. Some of them are using ice, heat, exercises, and technology. I wish they would regulate it more but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely. Just my opinion based on my own experience, of course.
nanyatenyaa
When it comes to people performing medicine on my body. The 'do your research part' should begin and end with "I am a board certified physician. Other experts have certified I am a medical expert." Not "You have great google reviews."
nanyatenyaa
That's why even people who have gone to medical school... go through things like residency. Its one of they very very few fields where I have confidence that the people who claim they are experts ACTUALLY know what the fuck they are doing.
foreverinchains
I think we're justified in dismissing it entirely until they can actual demonstrate the results they claim. Remember that the plural of anecdote isn't data.
InViUnius
True. And like you I wasn't easily sold. But results are seeing Xrays. While me 'believing' the pain is less could be psychosomatic, Xrays don't care about how I feel about them. And, like I said, this could have been all just a....strange coincidence....but I went from 2 hours of sleep and waking to a pain that had be crying out to sleeping normally. I do understand your reservations though. But there was a time where respected doctors thought Humorism was the scientific way.
CapitalNick
A chiropractor got my dad, who was mostly wheelchair bound, up into using a walker. And then to a cane. Leave it to Imgur to take nothing else into consideration and blast an entire profession with their blanket observations.
5Toner
Ya im a little annoyed by the negative chiro comments. Like every profession there are good and bad .. prescription free pain relief and somehow chiros are the bad guys
CapitalNick
Imgur has turned into an all-or-nothing cesspool as lately. Not sure what happened.
5Toner
I thinks it's the ppl from reddit /s
BigEatsBen
the point is that it's unregulated
InViUnius
Exactly. Though I chiro can do damage, it's just a matter of seeing their reviews. I mean...if it's baby's first day at the office, I don't want to be his/her test patient. But unless reviews are 'mass hysteria' then I say it is worth considering. I have friends that either had to have surgery with little longterm relief or were told to just take pain meds forever.
CapitalNick
Any chiropractor is just as fallible as any surgeon or "regular doctor". Any adjustment is just as risky as any surgery. That's why they have you sign releases. But people hear big scary sounds of bones being adjusted and equate it to what they see in movies with people's necks being broken. As of late, Imgur is really starting to swing too far to the other side of the tolerance and understanding spectrum.
epochfail
Nope, this is the problem. "Any adjustment" is absolutely *NOT* "just as risky as any surgery". That's why you're defending chiropractors based on an anecdote, and the rest of us are avoiding them based on statistics. The "conversation" (if you can even call that circlejerk one) you've just had with that other user is an absolute joke.
InViUnius
-braced for a scathing reply and blinks in surprise- ...Yes.