LordofGoats
36800
1928
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Which is worse? That they're so dumb about it all, or that they will totally get away with it?
mizzamir
I have been working in the corporate world for over twenty years and in tech for ten and if you had a thousand software engineers working on something, it was almost certainly on the verge of totally collapsing and if you stopped that many software engineers from working on it you have started a clock counting down to when it completely breaks
ATLandNerdy
They don't like it when you point out how thin their lies are. They also don't care, because their intended audience will never see it.
daverae
Later, they will blame immigrants and teachers.
therealalansmithee
It’s inexperience+incompetence Mixed in with marching orders from muskrat to make me look good even if you’ve got to put your thumb on the scale
VinzClorthoInSunglasses
No. Bad DOGE. No treat for you. Let's go get your balls removed.
fartharder
Big Balls?!
Youhavinagiraffe
They are also double-wrong because at no point have they attempted to prove that any of these cuts are actually "savings". Not paying your credit card bill is not a saving when you have to pay later with interest, never getting your car serviced is not a "saving" after you break down and need to pay for expensive emergency assistancee
crazaProblemStar
It's a saving for Present Day US, the cost is paid by Future US. Future US is not the same as Present Day US, therefore US will never have to pay the cost of all the savings.
... is literally the fucking logic behind it.
WarmLiquidGooPhase
Musk tried to cut costs at Twitter and instead trashed its entire reputation turning it into a far right fascist shithole.
Sounds familiar somehow.
TheFastpaws
I hate this country.
eromitlab
That thread won't last long on free speech absolutist elonmuskfanboiapp
Okiegoon
Is there a website that has a full breakdown of this that I can link to?
WeMistbornsNeedNotMakeSense
I don't think they are dumb. I think they are doing exactly what they are supposed to do as planted traitors: Destroy the country.
LordofGoats
And I'm certain there are things that we don't know about yet that will ensure we never see the country recover. There's always another secret.
LordofGoats
100% this. Just dumb that they put this stuff out and act like it proves they're doing anything of value. But that being part of the point, I think the answer to my question is that the worst part is that they will likely never face consequences.
Poppypoppoppop
And... where does all the saved money go? Follow the money and you may be surprised. Actually not really, my bet is on to Musk or any other billionnaires in the form of government contracts. Exhibit #armoredtesla :
Megamastermetamememaker
Nobody ever talks how it is so easy to save billions in government spending...just shut everything down. The consequences will, of course, be felt. Either immediately, middle term or on the long term. What they are doing is just undermining a functional state.
fartharder
I wonder who would benefit from that?
cearn
Yup. It's like a company saving money by just firing all the workers and not paying the utility bills anymore. Sure, you'll "save" on all that money that you would have otherwise had to spend. And then your products run out and your electricity is cut off and the company just ... dies.
We've even _seen_ him do it to twitter. How much value did it lose because of him? 80%, I think it was? And somehow people still let him do this >_<
Someshithead241
Kinda reads like what an embezzler would write into the company books to try and mask where all the money is going, but falls apart when an audit happens. It sounds exactly like that.
But I'm sure that's nothing
fartharder
You mean an actual audit, by actual auditor tho, right?
fillerbunny9
I’m shocked that what Leon says and reality are two entirely different things! Shocked, I say!!
SupaPat
Experts*
Flodos
So, in essence, they "saved" maybe 2 billion, while easily doing 100's of billions worth of damage to the country. Marvellous.
Perkunas687
"Hey, I saved myself a ton of money by no longer paying my car payments or mortgage payments!"
Flodos
"if you're rich enough, y'know, they just let you do it. Just grab 'em by the pensions."
d0n0r
This. They're running amok like a troop of monkeys, having no idea what the fuck they are doing.
Che07
Elon Musk, who is doing much of the crushing, has said that he thinks about the fate of the Roman empire every day and suggested that America might need a “modern-day Sulla” — a Roman dictator who murdered hundreds of his opponents, while reforming the state. You have been warned.
Sarcgasm
He could be right, but has totally missed the point that he is top of the list to go, and Luigi = Sulla
Gryphonosiris
Anyone who dreams of being able to kill their political opponents should never be put into a position of any kind of power.
d0n0r
So, the corruption that occurred had nothing to do with the fall of Rome? People starved in the streets while the fat cats prospered. Deny history and you're bound to repeat it.
Che07
Who is saying that the corruption had nothing to do with the fall of Rome? Talking about history: Sulla lived 138–78 BC. The fall of Rome occurred around 470, over 500 years later...
d0n0r
My wording may not have been as adequate as it should have been but I think we're on the same page.
LordJebusVII
They completely ignore the savings that come from aid programs. Send food to an ally fighting a warlord, you don't need to go in with the military when the warlord takes over the oil fields and drug factories to fund terrorism. Support for inner city kids? Fewer drug addicts and less violent crime in 10 years time. Free healthcare for pregnant women? Fewer babies born with lifelong health issues. Every dollar spent on helping people is to save money in the long term.
LordofGoats
It is cheaper to be kind. And that alone is one of the biggest giveaways that Republicans are lying whenever they talk about fiscal responsibility (which only comes up, for most, when a Democrat is in the White House).
Stefnos
DOGE is there to prevent money from being spend so they can pocket it.... thats it... it's just thiefs
JeaPi
It was never about savings, just dismantling
floatationman
Yes. It's an ideologically driven attack on the bureaucracy, which they view as evil. See "deep state" memes.
d0n0r
Absolutely.
SansAandAnguS
Are they that incredibly ignorant of the gov contract system, or are they deliberately being misleading? I'm not sure what is worse.
Trustinlies
Probably a mixture.
ellevacion7
Deliberately misleading their under-educated base who will just take their word for it.
stronomer
This thread is focussing on all the wrong things. The real question is: which functions, services, or roles are being provided by the contracts that are nullified and people that are fired. And the fallout of that will be very costly in money, reputation, and peoples lives and livelihood across the globe. China will just throw an extra $50b for global development and then own 20 extra countries. Etc. etc.
LordofGoats
I don't disagree with what you're saying. It's just nice to see someone go through and prove the thinly veiled lies. But yeah, that was my first thought when they cut USAID, and even that is a small fraction of the consequences. The US likely will not recover from the devastation of this administration within my lifetime.
stronomer
I do agree with your point. And I also do agree that the US won't recover. Which I think is the point.
Trustinlies
They are also looking at some of the smallest budget items of the US. Look into how much waste is in the defense budget. Having served I remember some of the BS stuff we spent money on because of use it or lose it.
JohnBigboote74
Hashbrown123
A mistake plus Keleven gets you home by seven.
Freak0zoid
And the savings mean gutting jobs. Meaning they get unemployment or some form of government assistance. I don't know how the US system works, but that would increase government spending on a different part. So it's moving money around.
Trustinlies
The next stage of their plan is restricting who can get benefits, adding in work requirements and such. So the only way you will be able to get benefits is working so many hours a week. But wait theres more! Working will probably put you over the income threshold to qualify for benefits too! Would you like unlubed or unlubed?
LordofGoats
Ah, but not if you cut the ability for the government to provide those benefits! Then the people just suffer for their audacity of serving their country. Cruelty is the point, and this cruelty has more layers than an ogre.
Freak0zoid
Sad situation, nice reference
graehall
The central belief that all government programs are a waste of taxpayer money & cost money & never create benefit is right wing childishness
graehall
Except when it gets even more insidious that the far right nazi assholes KNOW it creates benefits & they want to stop that from happening
INeverReadTheTOS
Also, hasn’t DOGE already gone like 200% over-budget?
GiantSquanchy
And they are mostly just posting data that was public information anyway
rowm
No no you don’t understand, they made savings
SirBonSama
That's because Muck is no scientist, visionary, trendsetter, innovator, engineer, or even a businessman. He's a huckster who can lie convincingly enough that he can get people to invest in his latest delusion. Every success he has has been stolen credit. One of his business strategies is to refuse to pay his rent. Another is to sue people who try to warn other people about the flaws in his products.
CJAW
Refusing to pay and frivolous lawsuits? Sounds like he's borrowing from Trump's playbook
OBM1
Yeah this. Run a proper P&L, Elon.
xurs
it's not about doing a good job at this, it's about closing and taking over the government and posting some numbers as "proof"
RatsLiveOnNoEvilStar
That involves accountants, and obviously DOGE has nothing to do with accounting.
RAJrios
*accountability
ThingsThatDontJustifyGenocide
$7M/week...
DOGE needs to cut itself.
FraxTech
https://youtu.be/vbN2pkAFN2Q?si=7R8_Yp0ZQQOyv888
DoctorSniffles
Is it really that much? Damn
FraxTech
According to Congress, His contracts total $8M per DAY. It was brought up in a hearing recently.
M4UsedRollout
So he cut $2 billion in spending, but costs the government $3 billion annually. Seems about right.
LunarEntropy
Total scam all the way down.
Clockworkdancerobot
There's tons of programs that create benefit and even create revenue. It's not so simple as "Cut this, get savings".
GhostbusterGuy
Especially programs that cost money up front but save money long-term in other areas.
SavageDrums
Everything is simple when you're stupid but think you're smart.
DigiT00l
Cut all of Elon's contracts and you will actually save money
khora
SpaceX has been significantly cheaper than ULA.
Feralkyn
It's the same exact logic as "cut benefits to the unemployed to save money."
Like, do you think the unemployed are dragons that then just eat the money?? No, they *use it to purchase goods and services.* It returns to the economy... It does not disappear.
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Cut this. Save a small amount. Find out later you needed it. Loose more money because it's gone. Rebuild it for even more. Profit?
khora
Cut this. Pay out money anyway, as that is what the contract says to reimburse investments made. Don't get the benefit you paid for.
QuasiIntellectualChimpanzee
This is literally how Musk did his takeover at Twitter
BananaForScaIe
It's a GE tactic from the 90s. Assume everything is broken, cause so many things are it would take decades to unravel and the costs would be insane.
So you break it all down, see what's missed, replace that, assume you saved a tonne of money, spend extra to rehire people as contractors instead of employees (or buy companies to get access to one person) and in the end you have a different, but slightly more efficient, machine.
But that's not government, cause every department is intertwined.
BananaForScaIe
All of this should have started with an audit. Without that it's literally impossible to make any decisions in any one department in isolation, and nothing exists in isolation (see: USAID money mostly goes to american farmers, so does most SNAP money, so whoops, $100BB in farmer income gone, guess we'll need to give them $100BB in subsidies so that the poor don't get handouts!
TheWombatStrikesAgain
Audits are for people who are aware of their own limitations and don't think they're a once-in-a-generation kind of genius.
QuasiIntellectualChimpanzee
How can they conduct an audit when the DOGE team doesn’t seem to have a single CPA or other accountant?
BananaForScaIe
They can't, the closest that's ever happened was under Clinton where a huge reduction in force, huge number of cuts, massive military cost restructuring, and a balanced budget happened. Just take the steps, take the time, be methodical, follow the law.
But it definitely starts with knowing what's currently going on and how it works, not just walking into a department you've never worked with on tools you've never worked with and changing stuff cause "now it makes sense".
JimboTCB
The IRS generates significantly more in tax revenue than it costs to run - because, you know, that's it's entire fucking point - but they're so underfunded they can only afford to go after the small fry who don't have expensive accountants and lawyers on retainer. Good luck getting them to increase its funding so they can go after serial high-worth tax avoiders and make an actual impact.
LordofGoats
My friend is currently waiting to get fired from the IRS. The day the orange abomination got elected back into office, I knew she was out of a job. Republicans have hated how effective the IRS has been going after their donors the last few years.
h41fgod
I hate numbers like "we get a return of 4.78 for every 1 dollar we spend". Ok, thats really nice, but they should be getting more money until that number is way lower.
QuasiIntellectualChimpanzee
They actually got an increase under the Biden admin and recovered a lot from being able to go after larger cheats.
Unclescam
99% sure that got undone day 1 of Eric's dad signing the papers.
QuasiIntellectualChimpanzee
It did
DoseOfScience
Are you saying that it's not as simple as [Investment]->[Black Box of Mystery]->[Returns]?
pixelsnader
Actually, it is. The problem, however, is figuring out what happens in the black box of mystery.
DoseOfScience
No no no! The management told me that if I try to open it and find out what's inside, the magic pixies will escape, but not to worry, they're well trained and can be trusted to handle it, but to question anyone who tries to unseat them.
Leithoa
The black box of mysteries is crime. Brought to you by the Bernie Madoff school of economics.
blahblahbushes
These morons are trying to run the country like a company. But they don't understand that you CANNOT run a country like a company. The core function of a business is to make a profit. The core function of a government is to collect funds (taxes, levees, fees, etc) and then GIVE THAT MONEY AWAY in the form of grants, infrastructure projects, Medicare, foreign aid, Social Security, research funding, FEMA, FDA, VA, national defense, SNAP, WIC, environment management, and so much more.
Mozyzgiraffe
Wrong. The person in charge should get all that money.
TuckerCarlsonWarnedYouTheredBeGirlsLikeMe
Government accounting is different than commercial accounting. Literally. Different set of standards and procedures set by a different professional body. FASB vs GASB.
upsidedownyhead
Not even like a company. More like a lemonade stand
AtmaDarkwolf
No. They intend to fuck it all up, cause so much chaos, and burn it all down, but make it 'LOOK' like ineptitude (BTW the DOGE workers ARE inept, it is those who put them on the task who hoped for this...) Your country is being burnt down (and beyond) to the foundations so that the remaining crumbs can be scavenged by the few left in charge... and sold off to certain Russian Puppet masters. But hey, lets all stand around and point as they keep it up, no reason to act, Right?
Grimmrog
They sure give that money away for their companies and pocketses.
CelestialSea
Problem is they're not good at running companies either.
Etereo
No, they have no uderstanding how a company runs
ExecutiveProducerWolfDyck
If they ran a company like this, it would go under in a week and be sold off piecemeal to pay golden parachutes. And this is exactly their plan.
JackSmiles2
The extra problem with the whole business is that we aren't even talking about textbook business where MAYBE you could take some examples from it and utilize it but no that's not what's happening. They are trying to run like the businesses that exist in our capitalist hellscape.
ZackWester
And even for a company its not to make money (well thats one goal but you can´t just start a company whoes only goal... its to provide a service or a good. if you dont provide the service or good for a value that the buyer like you have no profit. and a dead business.
bananaspitz
When its never taught in schools or schools let squeaky, obtuse, overprivileged parents dictate things, you get this
ItHappenedInThe20thCentury
You misunderstand. The core function of a (I mean, their) government is very much to make a profit. For them. That's it, that's the plan.
crodrigues
a lot of people right now are struggling to accept that a country cannot function when the government is run as a capitalism machine, which is the whole brainwashed idea our representatives have been regurgitating for decades. the result is a population bent on fucking itself over because anything "socialist" is a bad thing that needs to be avoided at all costs, even if that means collapsing our own country. congrats, we permanently royally fucked ourselves.
emberfish
My dad once worked for a paint company that cut an entire branch of the company cuz the higher-ups saw it was costing a huge amount of the budget and wasn't bringing in anything.
It was the paint manufacturing division.
LordofGoats
That's amazing and far too perfect an allegory for the US right now.
thinkybrainpains
Well, these sociopaths are against the “collect revenue” and “regulate to reduce risks” when it comes to their own billionaire bank accounts.
CyanideBreathMint
They’re mostly too daft to understand the difference between a company and a service
DespiseEveryone
If you ran a company with this kind of record keeping your accountant would shoot you.
mairusupawa
This isn't even a good way to run a company. This is just how to bleed an existing successful company dry.
ItsMoreComplicatedThanThis
All you say is true, but I'd argue that you shouldn't run a company like this either.
I'm only in my mid 30s, but I've see my share of corpo bullshit, and elons gang of misfits checks pretty much all the bullshit boxes.
derekjohn
* see Boeing
myloveforyouislikeatruckberserker
You 100% shouldn’t run a company like this either, unless you want to benefit the very top with short term profits and doom the whole business within 2 years.. oh wait
phisteen
Musk is doing to the government what he did to Twitter.
darthnerdus6236
Golden parachute, repeat.
Wizzbit
"but that doesn't line our pockets, Why be president if you cant make a little on the side no."
"why would anyone be president for the benefit of others that sounds like socialist nonsense"
2074red2074
That's a thing that makes me want to do violence. People bitch about this or that losing $X per year. No you dumb fuck, it *costs* $X per year. We don't LOSE money by maintaining roads. We pay money, so that we have roads. If I go buy an $8 pizza, did I just lose $8? No, I spent $8 on food. I exchanged currency for goods and/or services.
bananaspitz
Basic economics.
ZackWester
Plus ask what would happen if you cut the road maitenence cost... after 3 year can you drive to work? can you get your Amazon order delivered to your home in a timely manner or at all? probably not.
amglasgow
These morons never played simcity as a kid.
bananaspitz
Try after 6 months to a year. We’d be back to cow paths and wagon tracks
prosper020
Sadly that’s how my parents see the world. They lost $8 on that pizza so you better eat every crumb or YOU are Wasting money which is a capital offense. Then my mom will cook enough food for 8 people to feed only 3, and bitch about having to eat only left overs or throw out food because no one will eat it. The food she comes home with isn’t an investment to keep us alive, it’s a moneysink that is only a constant cause of worry for their upper middle class household.
Icefyer
My dad is the same way. Duct-taped together dishwasher was fine, but when he wanted computer upgrades... always with the "there's starving kids in Africa." when it came to food. Got his ass divorced because of it, where he once forced my mom to still clean the house and all after she was trying to recover from a knee surgery, and guess who voted for the orange corpse.
2074red2074
Well yes, that's right. If you spend $8 on a pizza and nobody eats it so it gets thrown in the trash, that is indeed lost money. Same if she makes food for eight people and then throws out food for five.
prosper020
It is not lost money. The pizza did not suddenly transubstantiate into 3 singles and a $5 bill because no one ate it. The pizza was wasted if no one ate it. The money was never wasted no matter if the pizza was eaten or not, because the money was used to acquire said pizza. Once the pizza is acquired, the money is out of the picture. People choosing to see everything as money is the whole problem here. Also, in the case of cooking enough food to feed 8 people when only 3 people are eating, is a
prosper020
self creating issue. Time and time again I ask her to cook less food when she makes dinner, but instead she guilt trips people into eating away her problem.
2074red2074
If you use money to purchase something that is wasted, then that is a waste of money. You're losing money by buying goods that you cannot use and then disposing of them. And I'm not disagreeing that it's her fault for buying so much food. She is the reason that she is losing money.
TheMilliner
In truth, that’s just conservative austerity economics in action. Governments world-over have known that cutting spending and doing austerity economics doesn’t work. At all. Ever. Not even once throughout history. Problem is, businesses literally run on austerity economics. Budget cuts, reductions in employment, etc…
All DOGE is is an austerity think tank that does exactly what every conservative think tank does by saying “spending cuts” while never actually researching ANY of its effects.
LucienTheLuckless
"think tank" is a bit excessive... tank, for sure! but thinking?
TheMilliner
In fact, the most NOTABLE effect of austerity is the emboldening of the right wing and right-wing policies by performing authoritarian control over a nation’s budget and spending. They literally led to the rise of the Nazi Party under the Weimar Republic since it was so unpopular, and was used by Italy to prevent democratisation, leading to Mussolini.
agonarch
I just wanted to add Singapore runs fine as a company/country, I do think it's possible to do it well. They're obviously running using old neoliberal policies (free-market-heads) rather than modern conservatives ones though (don't spend money and you.. uh.. won't spend money! *snorts coke as business collapses under lack of investment*)
He's running DOGE like he runs X/Twitter (i.e. lazily) which wouldn't work for a company either.
TheMilliner
Except that Singapore isn’t free market, it’s quite literally almost the opposite. It’s a dirigisme economy with such heavy socialistic policies that it’s been debated whether or not it IS socialist for decades (it isn’t). The government owns 90% of Singapore’s land, the majority of its utilities and has major stakes in most industry. Taxes are low because they use their status as a tax haven to their advantage, among other things.
agonarch
Outside of the areas they control they enforce free market behaviour, though you're right that you won't compete with them in anything they've decided they want to control (Fuel, Housing, Healthcare)
ImgursLibertarian
That would assume a balanced budget which hasn't been a thing since before FDR. The Gov't spends debt. USDebtclock.org can show how much.