WhyDontYouMakeMe
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The Last Jedi is a fascinating work of art, and probably one of my favorite movies ever because of how unique of a specimen it really is. Never have I seen a movie that understood its own metatextual purpose so well that it just set itself on fire
The whole movie was trying to stop something like Rise of Skywalker from ever seeing the light of day, but nobody understood the warning. Every piece of the film, even the editing, was trying to destroy the ties to old lore that were strangling the new series. Kylo Ren clearly says the theme of the movie out loud and nobody in the audience actually heard it
"Let the past die, kill it if you have to. That's the only way to become what you were meant to be"
Everyone claimed they wanted to see something new from the series, but when given the chance to finally have it, fans revolted because getting something new meant letting go of what they already had. I guess it didn't help that the movie was very mean spirited, but it was an attempt to force the next movie to have original ideas to close the trilogy with. It's a crying shame that the backlash resurrected Palpatine instead
Icantthinkofaname2
Kyle Ren's statement was not the theme of the film.
Afewflowers
It would have helped if they had a plan for the trilogy as a whole or a consistent director
fadingtheory
Its the only good part of the movie though. Everything else was awful.
Sulexar
Uh, no. Nobody claimed they wanted something new. New is what the prequel series gave us, and everyone fucking hated it. So the sequels went back to basics, and everyone still cried their fucking eyes out. Producers don't give a shit what "fans" say, because people just want to bitch about everything. So they might as well make what they want, since clearly the "fans" don't have a fucking clue.
DeathLemons
Give me all the star wars
parahelios
It was an alright movie, but eh. If you wanted to dodge the legacy of the original trilogy, just ... start farther in the future? But then again this is the same franchise that reused tatooine and c3po in prequels because reasons
JayDeeDubs
I don't hate it like so many do, but I do think it badly missed some of the marks. Rey not having super special parentage? Would've been nice. No one clueing in high ranking members of the resistance that there was a plan, and they weren't just slowly delaying death? Idiot plot. The whole casino planet subplot? Wasted screen time. Luke sulking in his tent like a guy from Chile, not a fan, but I can see why they did it; and most of the Luke stuff was great, especially how he saves everyone.
MrStealYourGiF
In the same fashion that Galaxy Quest is ranked above some genuine Star Trek movies, I put Last Jedi below Space Balls, and the Family Guy and Robot Chicken spoofs.
andydicktracymorganfairchild
WhyDontYouMakeMe
IUsedToHaveUsernameOnce
Hmm... For me it was one of the first big budget movies I've seen. I've came out of theater thinking "what the fuck did I just watch" haven't seen the next one after that. Kinda got me off Star Wars movies. But then again it's my personal opinion and I won't force it on anyone or pretend I know better than other people which direction should this franchise go.
IUsedToHaveUsernameOnce
I meant that it's one of the first ones I've seen where I came out of the cinema confused. It's not literally a first big budget movies I've seen. My brain doesn't engage well when typing on the toilet at work.
Trankia12
I'm the type of person who tends to like anything, I liked Antman 3, I liked the Boba Fett show, I even liked Morbius! I did not like the sequel trilogy...
duktayp
There are a half dozen books/trilogies I'd recommend, superior to the three movies we got
CurbYourClassWar
ispendtomuchtimehere
the Star Wars fan is a difficult beast..I enjoy being entertained and won't listen to all the crying.
SciFiGuy2018
Relax people, it's just a movie.
HumanFromPlanetEarth
MrHappySmiles
(Chicken attack voice) “Rogue 1 is best!” Disagree and I’ll sick the garbage octopus on you!
BenjyX55
I loved the concept of a disillusioned Luke. Not so much that everyone else took half the movie to do fuck all.
Trankia12
Yeah. It just doesn't make sense though that he tried killing Kylo for having some bad dreams, but forgave Vader who committed and was involved in many war crimes, including but not limited to genocide.
LordKitchenersValet
If we are to get more Star Wars movies or TV, I also want Rogue Squadron to be inspiration. Not everything needs to be about the folk that were in A New Hope.
mirrorz
I can't remember the movie titles in the new trilogy without googling so I'm not sure which movie/Episode number you are referencing. The 2nd (8th) movie was so bad that I never bothered to watch the final one. Really enjoyed most of the TV series though. (Except Andor and Asohka.)
DidntChooseTheUwULife
I remember when Luke threw the lightsaber over the cliff I had to pause the movie because i was laughing too hard. Best laugh I've gotten from a movie in a while.
ZebraThree
Here’s your downvote for proper use of the meme.
proxykalevra
Your reason that you think the SEQUAL was a good movie is because you liked the idea that they were trying to break the ties to the old lore... Them don't make a SEQUAL and go do something else. The people who made that movie made it so the rise of Skywalker was the best they could put out by trying to be ice together the coherent storyline the idiots tossed on the ground.
proxykalevra
And I say this as someone who liked the EU enough and read the books to know the storyline of Darth caedus and how amazing the lore Disney had already shut in to make a mediocre movie. If you want to know how bad a movie is put together behind the scenes watch the fight scenes for massive issues there is no reason for a fight scene to be terrible for the past decade or two especially with continuity errors.
silentjay01
I wanted to see the Yuuzhan Vong.
JayDeeDubs
You literally made me make a noise of disgust out loud at my computer. Kudos?
silentjay01
I'd rather have had the Yuuzhan Vong than Death Star 2.0 and Palpatine somehow returning. That shit all felt lazy.
TektronixTDS360
Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker were fun, but not good. Last Jedi was good, but not fun. I think Empire and Rogue One managed to do both.
SirStevesy
LordKitchenersValet
Thank you for your take. I like it. I think the scene where Luke considers burning the sacred texts, and then tries to save them when Yoda pretends to burn them, is also important.
Someone put it that the message of the movie is partly "don't adhere too strictly to the past, and don't throw it away entirely either." ...which is vague enough to be indisputably valid, and also to be a pretty good guideline. Throw away the bathwater but maybe keep the baby.
LordKitchenersValet
The haters for the Disney Star Wars stuff tend to be, in my experience, dudebros who make being dudebros a big part of their personality. It could just be a coincidence that they also seem to only like mostly works that fail the Bechdel test, but I'm not going to bet on it.
gman003
Out of the new trilogy, I have the most good things to say about TLJ. I also have a lot of bad things. The metatextual intent was exactly what SW needed. The cinematography was great. Some of the new ideas melded perfectly, like the early bomber-run scene. But then... the plot is a wreck. Any tension from the hour-long chase scene evaporated when they went on a heist recruit *during* the chase. The textual moral was hammy. The sacrifice scene didn't work and invited too many lore questions.
gman003
ROS was rubbish through and through. I generally let plot holes slide if I only notice them after I leave the theater. ROS, I couldn't even track what the plot *was* half the time. I can't think of any part of it I liked. TFA, I have so little to say about, I just had to wikipedia it to remember the title - it was Star Wars, yes, maybe it was necessary after the prequels, but it was soulless and derivative.
gman003
I think TLJ had the most *potential* of the sequels, maybe even of the whole series. It needed more revisions during outlining and scripting. Or perhaps less - it does smell a bit of executive meddling. Make the plot *work* - it doesn't have to be shakespeare, it doesn't need to obey every tidbit of continuity, it just needs to function - and you'd have the recipe for a much better movie.
FiftyShadesOfArugula
Couldn't agree more. Like the maestro GL himself, RJ would have greatly benefited from a writer's room to bounce ideas off. It did the plot and dialogue no favors that he wrote the whole thing by his lonesome. At the very least, he should have hired and consulted one woman writer. He subverted everything under sun except for the fact that the entire new trilogy was written and directed by a bunch of middle aged white men, none of whom posssessed the rare male ability to write believable women.
mksu
I really enjoyed all the good shit Luke was talking about the failings of the Jedi Order and I thought it was gonna set up the foundation of a fundamentally different Jedi Order (because I can't imagine them letting go of the Jedi name in the primary time setting), but then he faceplanted and needed Yoda to come lecture him on how a bunch of texts didn't matter when Luke was never a conventional Jedi with strong ties to the Order to begin with...
mksu
I didn't like the movie overall, but I will say it was satisfying as fuck when Poe got slapped down for his attempted mutiny because I absolutely hate when shit like that happens and works and it's just OK because they're the protagonists and have the power of moral convictions on their side.
InfocalypseRising
I mean...I was kinda on his side. Purple Hair refused to tell anyone what her plan was, and as far as anyone knew it was "just run away until we're out of fuel and then die."
SirStevesy
I think she was supposed to have told her staff what she was doing, but the point was Poe (and the audience along with him) didn't know because he had just been demoted for disobeying Leia. From Holdo's point of view, he was too low- ranking of an officer to be involved.
modus0
But at the same time, he only asked her if she even *had* a plan, and she responded with some noncommittal BS instead of a straight "Yes." Hell, mentioning that they had a plan that had been conceived by Leia would have likely gotten his complete compliance. But no, a supposed "great general" instead gave a flippant response that nearly ended the Rebellion.
sharikov
I strongly believe that, in a decade or two, it'll be considered the second best Star Wars film after Empire.
TooRexyForMyShirt
solrev
* stares confusingly in Rogue One*
WhyDontYouMakeMe
No Bothan Spies, 6/10
Although I do genuinely like the added context to the opening of A New Hope. It makes Leia even more bad ass when Vader confronts her
Icantthinkofaname2
Lol. No.
andydicktracymorganfairchild
*confusedly
MrStealYourGiF
Yah, that's where I'm at, Rogue One was good, Force Awakens was okayish, endured Last Jedi, just can't be bothered to make time to sit through Rise of Skywalker, I just didn't care what the fuck happened after Last Jedi.
solrev
Same. Sat thru it. You missed nothing. For me. The rogue one jump to spot #2 (nothing beats Empire) happened when I realized it’s an Akira Kurosawa film.
TwistedLizard
As you said the movie was very mean spirited, just ONE of its biggest faults. It makes the whole thing come off as insincere and malicious. Don't wink at the fans one scene then spit in their eye the other. Honestly it a problem with alot of modern writers who seem to hate the IPs their given and lock themselves into a "I can write it better" mind set. Which they can given the time and effort, however, their still standing on the shoulders of giants best not to track mud of their shoes on them
Icantthinkofaname2
Lol wah wah wah, all the star babies cry over the best episode since Empire! Also, op and you are neither of you quite grasping the actual point of the film.
WhyDontYouMakeMe
I don't want to be dismissive, but TLJ gets better every time Disney pushes out another Star Wars product for people to watch. It understands Star Wars on the same level as KOTOR, and knows that the series needs room to breathe and be something other than the ouroboros that is the Skywalker story. Let the past die, kill it if you have to
andydicktracymorganfairchild
Andor, though. I was pretty impressed with how it draws on the looming moral drama of rogue one and ep 4 to create tension and suspense.
TwistedLizard
Can't argue there that Disney seems dead set on just burning through the series Nostalgia, maybe we'll get lucky and they'll sell it off once their done to someone who actually cares who can rebuild series from the ground up. A pipe dream to be sure, but nice to dream
andydicktracymorganfairchild
Oh, you can be darn sure the whole story will be rebooted under new management at some point. Probably in our lifetimes. Probably in preproduction right now.
ProppaGanda
I would agree if not the fact that the characters are cardboard cutouts, Rey has absolutely no qualities of her own, the story makes no sense (why is the whole jump-to-hyperspace-bomb not a standard tactic with suicide drones?!? A fucking parking ticket as a driving force for the plot? You must be kidding me) - and that, ultimately, it is tone deaf.
Star Wars is a heroic fantasy in space. Determination, purity of heart, the classic chivalric virtues are rewarded and evil is punished.
ProppaGanda
TLJ tries to be cynical towards those values in an edgy teen way. It doesn't really explain the switch of the values. Why does a world in which things that have one millionth of a chance work out nine of ten times suddenly only respond to some absurd self-sacrifice? Why is the plot driven not by heroes but by chaos? It's never elaborated upon.
ProppaGanda
And this is why, in my opinion, Rogue One works while TLJ doesn't; it gives the full agency to the heroes, even if they are doomed to win only in the ultimate sacrifice. It is still a heroic fantasy, they are not being thrown around by chaos, they don't lose because their ride got towed for parking violations.