Hmuda
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You know these guys, right?
They are the butt of many jokes in cinema. They are inept, inaccurate, and above all, expendable cannon fodder for the Empire. The very idea of useless evil henchmen being unable to hit the barn from the inside is named after them. The "Stormtrooper Effect".
Here we are going to take a look at the original trilogy, and nothing else. There will be no explaining away the issue with faulty equipment here, just what we see in the movies.
Is this reputation justified?
Here's the thing...in-universe they are said to be fanatically loyal soldiers, with accurate aim and ruthless efficiency. Their Wookiepedia entry describes them as 'elite', and incapable of betrayal.
And these blast points, too accurate for Sandpeople. Only Imperial stormtroopers are so precise.
- Obi Wan Kenobi
The entire franchise starts out with stormtroopers slaughtering the crew of the Tantive IV.
The enemy had superior cover, while the Empire's soldiers had to blast through the door and go in two at a time at most, while under heavy fire from a corridor full of rebels, all pointing their weapons at said door.
Yet, they managed to take control of the ship in no time with minimal losses, completely annihilating the opposition.
Then why is it that when it comes to the main characters, they appear incredibly incompetent?
They were ordered to be...
Remember Vader saying that Leia could still be of use to them, after the Grand Moff sentenced her to death?
When the rebels were discovered, and it was apparent that they are trying to rescue her, he recognized the value of keeping her alive, and convinced Tarkin to halt her execution.
And so the stormtroopers were ordered to let them escape with a tracking device hidden on the Falcon. They put on a show, appearing to try to stop them. And since they were supposed to be loyal to the extreme, they were willing to lay down their lives in order to make the ruse believable.
It was all kinda obvious though...
Leia: They let us go. It was the only reason for the ease of our escape.
Han: Easy? You call that easy?
Leia: They're tracking us.
Han: Not this ship, sister.
Yes this ship, mister.
Next time we see our heroes, they are assaulting the rebel base on Hoth.
Ok, here they had tremendous advantage. Imperial walkers were decimating the defenders in the trenches, and by the time they gained access to the main base, almost all rebel personnel had been evacuated.
We do see however their attempt at grounding the Falcon. When they discover the hangar, they are met with heavy turret fire from the ship, yet they were disciplined enough to assemble a heavy turret on the fly while suppressed. That's some badass discipline right there.
Surely they were incompetent on Bespin...
Well, not quite.
What do we know? Vader had the hyperdrive on the Falcon disabled. He intended them to reach the ship, just in case his duel with Luke didn't go as planned, and his son somehow escaped.
Since Luke did escape by jumping off after his hand was cut off, the Falcon was a contingency plan. They can pick Luke up, and try to jump out the system (they obviously didn't factor in R2-D2, and his ability to fix the Falcon, in that plan). So, this was the Death Star all over again. The troops were ordered to make the pursuit believable, but still let the rebels reach their ship.
With the hyperdrive being disabled, they weren't supposed to escape anyhow, so it wasn't a risk to let them take off in the Falcon.
And now, the big one, Return of the Jedi. Surely he cannot explain away the teddy-bear massacre...
First, we see Leia almost getting captured. First, one of the scout troopers lay down suppressing fire to keep the rebel pinned down, while the other one circles around and disarms her. Textbook stuff.
She only escapes because of Wicket.
And it all comes down to this. A few dozen stormtroopers versus hundreds of carebears.
So, what do we know of this battle?
On one side, we have (supposedly) less than a hundred highly trained soldiers with space age weaponry, and a handful of walkers, more suited to smoke out entrenched positions, rather than hunting down scattered, small primitives hiding in heavy undergrowth. We know they didn't throw all the soldiers at the battle, as there were still quite a few left inside the base that were captured later.
On the other side, we have about 20 rebel commandos, slightly less well equipped than the Empire. And of course, the ewoks. We know they are dangerous. They are eating the flesh of their prisoners, they despise the Empire, and their god in golden armor just descended from the heavens to lead them in a crusade against their evil oppressors (yeah, 3PO was reluctant to impersonate a god, but that didn't stop the others from taking advantage of the munchkins' religious thirst for blood and retribution).
Personally, I REALLY-REALLY don't want to know what happened to the previous owners of these helmets.
Yub-yub? More like 'Yum-yum'.
But I digress...
Just to reiterate, on one side we have about one company worth of elite troops.
On the other side we have a handful of elite rebel commandos, and of course a horde or carnivorous savages, fueled by their hatred of the Empire and their religious zealotry to see their home rid of the alien menace. They not only have an overwhelming numerical advantage, but superior experience in guerrilla tactics. These lovable teddy bears of death don't fuck around.
As for the accuracy of our intrepid heroes...
They managed to incapacitate R2 with a single shot, taken after aiming for just a fraction of a second...
...and wound Leia with a blast even less aimed than the one before. He's not even using both hands to steady the weapon.
So there. As it turns out, stormtroopers are not as inept as people first think. Throughout the movies they are shown to be efficient and quite accurate with their weapons, not to mention their unquestioning loyalty to their leaders.
They were not perfect. They made mistakes, they were not immune to force-manipulation (those were the droids they were looking for), they still missed a lot even when they didn't mean to, but in the grand scheme of things they were a bunch of badasses willing to die for the Empire.
cat tax
Starkiller02
InsertAmusingUserName
Best cat tax I've seen in a long time. +1
RentonRafferty
In a long time, in a galaxy far far away ?
Radis
If they had mounts like those kitties, the Empire would never had fallen. Long live Palpatine! I mean Darth Vader! No wait... Snoke! Oh Jeez
Roserapaine
I keep looking at them and laughing because they look so damn determined omg xD 'You're going to fucking DIE rebels'
SocoFox
"Let's not accidentally kill the boss's son."
allstardelta
#stormtrooperlifesmatter
thegameball
http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/intervocalic_fortition.png
BardleTheBeed
"An entire legion of my best troops await them. Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield will be quite operational when your friends arrive."
BardleTheBeed
Palpatine boasting to Luke from ROTJ - more than a "few dozen"
Chipkay
i said the same thing , you can see my comments in the negative vote section
OneManHypeCrew
Just when I thought I could justify my terrible aim on Battlefront.
Flippinballz
Cool op but lets not pretend its not the classic "bad guys shoot well but only if the target is not important" scenario.
maximinusthrax1
They were as accurate as they needed to be to make the plot move along. No more, no less.
someonefigureditout
No one ever listens to me when I make this argument, I'm saving this for later use
icyanddicey
You see, it's not because of the argument...
musicalbuffoon
Incapable of betrayal? *Cough cough* FN-2187 *Cough cough*
AFancyGentleman
Another armchair Imperial apologist. I swear, the politics of some of this sites users makes me sick.
ohmegatron
I love you.
wererat2000
Oh please, are you really siding with those savages and terrorists? There were innocent workers on those death stars!
AFancyGentleman
They knew what they were getting into taking those jobs! A roofer, for example, listens to their heart when taking a job. Not their wallet.
Voggix
Numbers on Endor are wrong. "An entire legion of my best troops awaits them". That's 6-10k soldiers.
Chipkay
depends a legion can also be 1040
glkerr
It's like the Battlefront II campaign all over again
ThoughtfulSatan
501st were Clones, much more professional.
glkerr
They became stormtroopers as the Republic turned to the Empire, but I will admit they stayed pure
CaptainMarkoRamius
Incapable of betrayal you say? http://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/Star-Wars-countdown-Boyega-Clone-Trooper.jpg
HarryBlackstoneCopperfieldDresdenIsMyPatronus
This iteration of storm troopers were not clones, not selectively bred. Merely trained from very young. You sacrifice some control that way.
Pikkupanda
Nomtombouts
"Um.... yea, sure." -George Lucas
TheBlackShakes
This comment is pretty much exactly the way it is.
AtLeastWereNotDetroit
" I agree. Makes perfect sense." J.K. Rowling
Efreeti
Can't think of Potter examples of this, other than maybe the Neville & Luna shippers getting them having a fling canon by the last film.
WhereCanYouSeeLions
Try running the numbers on anything in wizarding society and you get this scenario. Seriously. JKR cannot into math.
VampriruM
Any specific examples? I'm curious.
WhereCanYouSeeLions
As an alternate example, Luxembourg should not be able to have a national quidditch team if the population is at all proportionate. They
WhereCanYouSeeLions
Just, everything. From the price of wands to the proportion of the country that works for the Ministry to the fans at the World Cup.
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Pikkupanda
This comment should be inscribed in gold and marble for eternity.
TonyBalogna
Followed by this one.
tomyironmane
Han Shot First. And he would have shot him in the back, too, if his back was to him.
Efreeti
Goddamnit. Han didn't shoot first. Han shot. End of story.
tomyironmane
Han Shot First. Before Greedo could perform any action. Well, besides crumpling to the floor with a smoking hole in him.
CrunkArt
This might sound crazy, but what if I had a guy in town that could do something like that? I'll be back when I have the money.
Zfalconking17
I love it when someone shows their work.
Cheomesh
You might enjoy my gurps blog then lol
AnonymouZero
MOOOOM, YOU'RE EMBARASSING OP!
MediumPlatypi
Not suggesting OP didn't write this post, but I've seen this exact evidence shown many times in older posts.
Cheomesh
Pretty sure I saw these points on a Usenet Usegroup in the 90s.
TehBubblez
Found the math teacher
franticgiraffe
dang you beat me to it, and by just 11 hours too
LemonStarbursts
2nd grade wkst: "Explain why" me: FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT
allstardelta
MandaloreIncognito
Or, you know, BECAUSE the story involves the main characters... that's why we see them so incompetent? Most people don't want to see (1/2)
MandaloreIncognito
or read a story where the main characters have constant struggle against unimportant figures. Unless it drives the plot.
Earthgrubb
That's the boring explanation. It's way more fun explaining it in-lore.
VikingInOz
Thats way too logical. It MUST be this conspiracy i just made up.
DrDynamo
The more you know !!!! Thank man !
DontBeleiveEverythingISay
They should make a Star wars film from the point of the empire
Slowpool
I'd love a story about how a squad of stormtroopers is actually doing good work, trying to help innocent people and dealing with the stigma.
Panzershreck
There's a book about that. Allegiance by Timothy Zahn. I'd love to see in made into a movie
Slowpool
I meant more like a squad almost completely removed from the central drama. They're nowhere near the corrupt center of power of the (1/2)
Slowpool
Empire, and are horrified when they discover some of the things the Empire has done. No space wizards in sight.
mannycheeks
Are you sure your not a stormtrooper? You sound like a stormtrooper.
RoarImATinyDragon
They still failed to show the strength of their armour in the movies though, those things looked and behaved as if made of plastic, when
HolyCringeLordBatman
The armor is good for ballistics but no armor is terribly useful for blaster fire.
SeymourBush
The armour was more for protection from the elements and debris. The blasters shot basically blasts of energy, so it burned through the(1/2)
ExEBoss
Actually, their armour is designed to protect against blaster fire by acting as an ablative heat shield: https://youtu.be/1r69YZ6YlZw
Orcrist9000
That has always bugged me. Might it be that it isn't very strong armor when shot at short range? Dunno, as laser blasts are energy I don't -
Orcrist9000
think kinetic force (such as that produced by ballistic ammunition) should be factored in here.
UlfricOfWIndhelm
kinetic energy is very much still energy.
CowmanII
probably because they were literally made of plastic
SeymourBush
(2/2) armour and exploded at the same time
RoarImATinyDragon
It wasn't the blaster fire that bugged me but rather the arrows going straight through from the cuddly bears.
SeymourBush
True, but I also doubt that the armor was created with that scenario in mind. If it was, however, Lucas will find a way to "explain" it
ThatAssholeOverThere
Isnt their armor supposed to disperse energy rounds, only knocking out the user?
RoarImATinyDragon
they are supposed to be able to take bullets easily, their armour can even allow them to survive in the vacuum of space for short periods.
SergeantMachete
I think I read somewhere that the armour was more intended for survival in harsh environments than taking blaster rounds.
ThePastmaster
Lore states that they couldn't take direct shots but they could easily take ricochets that would kill an unarmoured person.
AverageWh1teGuy
It sucks in Star Wars: Rebels they are actually really useless and incompetent.
Thesinlesssinner
I love how in the animated Clone Wars they show how the clone troopers all have different personalities and traits. That show is awesome.
GarikFaceLoran
That is my biggest complaint about the show. They can make them competent and still have the heroes win. It's just lazy writing.
LokiKingOfJotunheim
Most of the characters in Rebels are not amateurs though. Sabine is a Mandalorian. Kanan is a Jedi Knight. Zeb was a Lasat honor guard.
lemmerustlethosejimmies
While true, the Stormtroopers are still elite shock troops that apparently can't hit targets in the open. Or use their superior numbers well
Badger421
To be fair, the Stormtroopers we see the most of in the trilogy are the 501st, Vader's Fist. It makes sense for them to be elite soldiers >2
Badger421
< Whereas in Rebels, we mostly see rank and file troopers stationed on out of the way worlds with little to no actual importance. >3
Badger421
4
Badger421
surprisemotherfuckers
to be fair they're improving plus these stormtroopers and officers could be fresh out of training or even conscripts considering how 1/2
surprisemotherfuckers
isolated Lothal is so some of them may not have had training. Although i don't disagree on lazy writing but again they're improving 2/2
FindusSomKatten
also the death star https://youtu.be/agcRwGDKulw
wollydefender
Are there still people who don't realize this? +1 for spreading the knowledge!
xLiamHaHax
Really you think this is the reason? I think the top comment sums it up perfectly..
xLiamHaHax
It is a common movie trope that the bad guys will always miss the heroes yet hit when needed for story reasons, done in lots of movies,
deleston
That sums it up, OP was reaching too far.
littlekidlover67
Quite a few, I'd imagine. Including myself up until about 30 seconds ago
twozerooz
You mean people who dont know a completely made up theory custom-designed around facts, that never existed until after the movies were made?
AcadianBacon
Well they were in fact ordered to let them go in the movies, a lot of this is said out loud by characters in the movie.
AnythingMuchShorter
There is some suntle hinting in the first one that they let them go: "they let us go" -Leia
darthbiscuit
Also, the Ewoks were so adept at beating walkers because their normal prey is 20' bird creatures. (They were cut out due to budget)
Sauroctonus
You joke, but there were actually creatures the size of AT-STs, or even bigger, that would terrorise Ewok villages.
darthbiscuit
I no jokey?
Sauroctonus
You don't jokey? Maybe just a little jokey.
darthbiscuit
That's why they had the traps already set up.
darthbiscuit
Also, quite a few teddy bears died.
AustinAlex
Why the shit did you get downvoted?
darthbiscuit
My charming personality.
ForeverVoteless
Tl;dr: Stormtroopers kick ass
pallosalama
I half-expected to see this behind that link, well done!
Starkiller02
BlueskydragonFX
Man that's as old as the internet itself!
Insomnia297
That's... that's not kicking.
DeltaSt0rm
He's kicking with his third leg.
CaptainCrunch2557
You fucking beat me to it
Pathox34
Probably not the only thing he beat tonite
SamuraiNoKokoro
"beat"
Krewnikoshea
I feel you failed to mention the ewoks superior knowledge of local terrain in the fight, it's a rather huge advantage not to be overlooked
ElmsiGreen
The Vietnam War is a great example. It had just ended when the first Star Wars movie came out so it must have influenced it in some way.
acirclesquared
Also heavy artillery used in close quarters. Ex US tanks in the Caucassus in th 90s.
blainetog
They're basically the Kevin McCallister of scifi.
FsImgur
And they had trees. Soaked in wood.
LumpyToucan
Ex. Vietnam
NeoHelios
I'm still not convinced on all the traps they set up, but that's a minor gripe compared to the overall perspective, here. Fun read!
Reepicheep927
Also: the knowledge that the good guys win tainting one's objectivity..watch a kid watch these, then tell me stormtroopers aren't terrifying
vipe650r
That is kind of implied, I think, as it is 101 in effective guerrilla warfare.
mitharas
Though I would have thought an elite troop would have some real knowledge about the surroundings after being stationed there for 4 years...
failphins2
Still doesn't compare to people that grew up in an area and had free roam, hunting and gathering there. An occupying force in hostile 1/2
failphins2
2/2 territory will try to stay close to base and follow patrol routes. They also didn't use the trees the way the ewoks did.
conTrollingyou
most of the death was near the base. they have guns. and their base are suppose to be a bitch to get into by funneling enemies in every exit
conTrollingyou
so they can slaughter them by rapid firing blasters and grenade launchers. they also have armor that somehow doesn't work...
ExEBoss
Actually, see this video for explanation on Stormtrooper Armour (which won’t fit in this comment): https://youtu.be/1r69YZ6YlZw
Burke616
Superior knowledge and all the damn traps they set up.
Krewnikoshea
Which were more effect because of their knowledge of the terrain and it was easier to goat them into them
CanIInterestYouInASarcasticComment
*goad, just for future reference
Krewnikoshea
Thank you I thought it looked weird
tehzpoon
For real, those logs will kill even the most experienced warrior. I know because of Oblivion and Skyrim.
skelitor120
The whole "Empire lost to teddy bears" argument is moot when you play Endor on any of the Battlefronts. Shit's treacherous, yo.
MatthewBroseph
To this day I have yet to win Endor: Assault as the Empire... 200+ snipers are no match for knee high badgers with sticks
TheFifthClockwatcher
Just get a gunslinger medal. Those little fuckers can't do nothing against that gun
skelitor120
Especially because they can walk through the floor of foliage that covers the place. Might as well make a gamemode for shooting rats.
fleacollerindustry
The analogy I like to give is: Forest Moon of Endor = Vietnam, Ewoks = North Vietnamese, Empire = Americans. (1/2)
fleacollerindustry
(2/2) Superior firepower doesn't help when A) you don't know the terrain, and B) you can't use said superior firepower indiscriminately.
fleacollerindustry
(3/3) And by that I mean, the Empire couldn't just use the Death Star on the Ewoks just like the US couldn't nuke the North Vietnamese.
TheSwedishStag
That and their Death Star shield generator was on that moon.
Itsboomtiemrightnow
But Americans killed much more Vietnamese than the casualties sustained during the war. The Ewoks just destroyed the stormtroopers.
fleacollerindustry
True, we don't see how many Ewoks the Stormtroopers actually killed. It could've been a lot, but still not enough to win. They're like rats.
wererat2000
Yeah, those pesky rats, always scurrying about and eating your delicious cheeses... what a pest... [nervous sweat]
AkuKitsune
Not gonna lie, I completely read that as "nervous squeak" and prefer it that way.