103943 pts · October 21, 2016
OK, sounds like you know more about this than I do (not hard, since I'm not even American, much less a student of US history). But it's nonetheless noteworthy that women only got the vote in 1920, and black people weren't fully enfranchised in the whole country until 1965 (!), a full century after the civil war ended, and the better part of two centuries after the constitution.
That's about my height. I'd be up for taking turns.
Well kinda, as long as you bear in mind that "The People" referred to in that context were wealthy, property-owning white men. So it's still a pretty long way from the kind of universalism that's usually considered a prerequisite for socialism, especially when you consider that that "property" included slaves, in many instances.
And I'm not trying to "gotcha" anyone. I'm also not "anti-left" and would happily vote for Sanders if I lived in the US and ever got the opportunity to do so.
Members of communist parties in multi-party democracies would presumably (assuming they're not full of shit) attempt to implement communism if they were able to form a government by themselves.
Dunno what you mean by "y'all." I've never voted in any US election because I don't live there.All I'm saying is that the Republican party has been the more right-wing of the two main parties for a good hundred years or so and has become far right since Trump took it over, while the Dems are still (more or less) centrist. So nobody who'd vote Republican can possibly be a "centrist", by definition.Maybe some of them call themselves that, but if they do, then it's a huge abuse of language.
Trump has steered the GOP towards the far right. You can't be a "centrist" and vote far right. That's a contradiction in terms.
Sanders is "far left" by US standards, but the point is that he's still _left_ by the standards of any country that isn't a Marxist-Leninist dictatorship. Which is most countries.And no, he is not a "capitalist." A capitalist is a member of the class that owns capital. Does Bernie own tons of shares in big companies? News to me if he does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters
Well some of them did - not many, but it wasn't zero. And far more either didn't vote, or voted Green or whatever. I've encountered them right here.
Well? I'm waiting.
Precisely. Thank you.
The word "socialism" is a bit of a moveable feast. In the strict sense, it precludes privately own business at all, but Sweden operates on the principle of social democracy, which combines regulated capitalism with a strong welfare state and some state-owned industry.Sanders is a democratic socialist, which is to the left of social democracy but to the right of Soviet-style state socialism, which was an attempt to implement Marxism.
What do you think I'm misinformed about?
I'm saying Bernie Sanders supports (a form of) socialism, and is therefore left-wing by any reasonable definition. I haven't even gone into the nonsense of George W. Bush being "far-right."
Lololol, I found the person who has (wrongly) assumed I'm American.
Imgur is full of American teenagers who think the rest of the world is a utopian socialist paradise, it sometimes seems like.
Since you apparently don't know about Wikipedia, I'll indulge you this once and post this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
Eh? Did I say either of those things?
"Bloomberg supports gun-control measures, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants."OMFG dude is LITRALLY a nazi!!!!!!11111
Imgur collectively has the political nous of a potato.Bloomberg is "far right"? Heh, sure bro.
This is a load of fucking nonsense. Sanders is not "centre", he's a self-identified democratic socialist. That's left-wing by any measure unless you're Chairman Mao. And Imgur is full of people convinced that "centrists" voted for Donald Trump, for some reason.
occurred between 2020 and the last election can't explain Trump doing better against Harris than he did against Biden in all but one of the electoral college's 54 voting districts. (So, for example, Trump's showing in 2024 was a lot better than in 2020 even in California, which the Dems rule with an iron fist.)As far as 'propaganda' goes, well if by that you mean persuading voters to vote in a certain way, then both parties do that, obviously. The Republicans just happen to be better at it.
Voter suppression is certainly a problem, but the actual figures present a mixed picture. For example, in 2024, "at least 10 states enacted 19 restrictive voting laws", but at the same time, "at least 21 states enacted 32 expansive voting laws": https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/voting-laws-roundup-2024-review - meaning, in the US as a whole, it got easier to vote, not harder. Also, Biden won in 2020 despite targeted anti-Dem-voter measures, and whatever law changes that>
Yes, that's undeniably true. But lots of folks here adhere to a literal "Elon hacked the machines" conspiracy theory, for which there is no evidence at all.
I am in no way a "Trump supporter" (or even American), but comments like that do indeed reek of copium. '“These elections were a demonstration of the resilience of America’s democratic institutions, as public engagement overcame repeated unfounded claims of elections fraud and divisive rhetoric,” said Pia Kauma, Special Co-ordinator and leader of the OSCE short-term observers.'https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111
How?
That's not so much a nope rope as a disable-cable.
This isn't intended as a rhetorical question or a gotcha or anything, but if it lies in Trump's power to force these files to be published, then didn't it lie in Biden's power, too? So why didn't he order their release when he was president?
I'm happily married and have tons of great sex that my wife enjoys too, so I'm not talking about myself.I'm simply saying that women should take an active role, and say what they want and what they don't want, if they want to enjoy sex. I thought this was a standard feminist view and, in 2025, not particularly controversial.
OK, sounds like you know more about this than I do (not hard, since I'm not even American, much less a student of US history). But it's nonetheless noteworthy that women only got the vote in 1920, and black people weren't fully enfranchised in the whole country until 1965 (!), a full century after the civil war ended, and the better part of two centuries after the constitution.
That's about my height. I'd be up for taking turns.
Well kinda, as long as you bear in mind that "The People" referred to in that context were wealthy, property-owning white men. So it's still a pretty long way from the kind of universalism that's usually considered a prerequisite for socialism, especially when you consider that that "property" included slaves, in many instances.
And I'm not trying to "gotcha" anyone. I'm also not "anti-left" and would happily vote for Sanders if I lived in the US and ever got the opportunity to do so.
Members of communist parties in multi-party democracies would presumably (assuming they're not full of shit) attempt to implement communism if they were able to form a government by themselves.
Dunno what you mean by "y'all." I've never voted in any US election because I don't live there.
All I'm saying is that the Republican party has been the more right-wing of the two main parties for a good hundred years or so and has become far right since Trump took it over, while the Dems are still (more or less) centrist. So nobody who'd vote Republican can possibly be a "centrist", by definition.
Maybe some of them call themselves that, but if they do, then it's a huge abuse of language.
Trump has steered the GOP towards the far right. You can't be a "centrist" and vote far right. That's a contradiction in terms.
Sanders is "far left" by US standards, but the point is that he's still _left_ by the standards of any country that isn't a Marxist-Leninist dictatorship. Which is most countries.
And no, he is not a "capitalist." A capitalist is a member of the class that owns capital. Does Bernie own tons of shares in big companies? News to me if he does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters
Well some of them did - not many, but it wasn't zero.
And far more either didn't vote, or voted Green or whatever. I've encountered them right here.
Well? I'm waiting.
Precisely. Thank you.
The word "socialism" is a bit of a moveable feast. In the strict sense, it precludes privately own business at all, but Sweden operates on the principle of social democracy, which combines regulated capitalism with a strong welfare state and some state-owned industry.
Sanders is a democratic socialist, which is to the left of social democracy but to the right of Soviet-style state socialism, which was an attempt to implement Marxism.
What do you think I'm misinformed about?
I'm saying Bernie Sanders supports (a form of) socialism, and is therefore left-wing by any reasonable definition.
I haven't even gone into the nonsense of George W. Bush being "far-right."
Lololol, I found the person who has (wrongly) assumed I'm American.
Imgur is full of American teenagers who think the rest of the world is a utopian socialist paradise, it sometimes seems like.
Since you apparently don't know about Wikipedia, I'll indulge you this once and post this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism
Eh? Did I say either of those things?
"Bloomberg supports gun-control measures, abortion rights, same-sex marriage, and a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants."
OMFG dude is LITRALLY a nazi!!!!!!11111
Imgur collectively has the political nous of a potato.
Bloomberg is "far right"? Heh, sure bro.
This is a load of fucking nonsense. Sanders is not "centre", he's a self-identified democratic socialist. That's left-wing by any measure unless you're Chairman Mao.
And Imgur is full of people convinced that "centrists" voted for Donald Trump, for some reason.
occurred between 2020 and the last election can't explain Trump doing better against Harris than he did against Biden in all but one of the electoral college's 54 voting districts. (So, for example, Trump's showing in 2024 was a lot better than in 2020 even in California, which the Dems rule with an iron fist.)
As far as 'propaganda' goes, well if by that you mean persuading voters to vote in a certain way, then both parties do that, obviously. The Republicans just happen to be better at it.
Voter suppression is certainly a problem, but the actual figures present a mixed picture. For example, in 2024, "at least 10 states enacted 19 restrictive voting laws", but at the same time, "at least 21 states enacted 32 expansive voting laws": https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/voting-laws-roundup-2024-review - meaning, in the US as a whole, it got easier to vote, not harder.
Also, Biden won in 2020 despite targeted anti-Dem-voter measures, and whatever law changes that>
Yes, that's undeniably true. But lots of folks here adhere to a literal "Elon hacked the machines" conspiracy theory, for which there is no evidence at all.
I am in no way a "Trump supporter" (or even American), but comments like that do indeed reek of copium.
'“These elections were a demonstration of the resilience of America’s democratic institutions, as public engagement overcame repeated unfounded claims of elections fraud and divisive rhetoric,” said Pia Kauma, Special Co-ordinator and leader of the OSCE short-term observers.'
https://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/usa/580111
How?
That's not so much a nope rope as a disable-cable.
This isn't intended as a rhetorical question or a gotcha or anything, but if it lies in Trump's power to force these files to be published, then didn't it lie in Biden's power, too? So why didn't he order their release when he was president?
I'm happily married and have tons of great sex that my wife enjoys too, so I'm not talking about myself.
I'm simply saying that women should take an active role, and say what they want and what they don't want, if they want to enjoy sex. I thought this was a standard feminist view and, in 2025, not particularly controversial.