alpha199512
123292
2948
160
May 3, 2019 4:39 PM
alpha199512
123292
2948
160
lenonymes
Laцgнs in Soviet.
ThomasThundersword
what, the world told us to stop playing around in Africa so we did.
b00red
Controversial thought. The region has always been unstable. Just like the rest of the world.
RootMeanSqr
Invading and staying 18 and counting years is dumb. Who likes foreigners running around in your country?
bcziggy21
Don't forget about the Middle East.
DrewBerg
jasari
I don't think there are many clean hands, the whole situation is a grease fire the west has been trying to put out with gasoline.
humaneffigy
Kind of a group effort.
TheOvy
It was a team effort
Redderick
The British had a big part in the Middle East instability. Just take a deeper look into the root causes of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Doumdidoum
They were either total incompetents or deliberate assholes, but they fucked up Palestine for the Jews and Muslims.
mgbeop87
Middle east has been in civil war for over 2000 years. How did any other country cause their problems.
Doumdidoum
You revealed your cards too soon, dumbass. You've shown everyone you don't know shit.
Fedotia
Well, USA has been bombing Iraq every year since 91, and now tries to spread it to Iran.
thematman92
Can we all agree regardless of blame the middle east has been in trouble for decades ( if not centuries) and we should try to help?
thematman92
I dont mean military intervention either. That doesn't seem to help.
Omnipotence0
I love when Britain throws shade at other people for being imperialist. When they like literally invented the game.
superglitter222
yeah its pretty impressive on how they conquered the world
RichardDastardly
Italy says Hi, Spain & Portugal would like a few words. And that's just in Europe.
Omnipotence0
Well mother England invaded like all but 10 countries that have ever existed, pretty sure that's the high score.
RichardDastardly
That's a really dubious statistic anyway, pretty sure it's in truth way fewer ( no matter how amused us natives are by the inflated one... )
thewax00
Its funny how T.E. Lawrence aggressively warned England that this would happen and they just shrugged "So what?! Nothing's going to happen!"
Doumdidoum
Laugh in Churchillian
thedogetgoery
Implying there would be no instability without any intervention.
MechaNinja
The suggestion that there is only one imperial power at fault is pretty silly.
alpha199512
Agree didn’t mean to do that, will rectify it.
xn1992
Still Waiting for the rectified version.
RichardDastardly
Given how big it'll be we might be waiting a while...
JasonThorn
Well, the Blame Game is still a popular one nations play...
CaptainConservative
This is funny. But come on. It's not like the region has a history of stability. People been killing each other there for a millennium
[deleted]
[deleted]
CaptainConservative
Rite. So is the history of that region
YesLikeWhatIDo
If so it’s true, why are you involved in this war?!?! I think ur region is far away from ME. N have you ever read history book of the ME?
CaptainConservative
I can honestly say I have no idea what you're saying
Fedotia
Historically Europe has been a bloodfest compared to this region. Crusades, middle-age, Napoleon, WW1, WW2...
CaptainConservative
I don't remember saying anything about Europe.
CaptainConservative
You know who else has quite the history of violence? Literally everyone. But the meme is funny cuz it blames Britian and the US.
superglitter222
a entire continent compared to a 4-3 middle eastern countries.
Fedotia
Iran is 3-4x the size of Germany, guess who started the most wars?
superglitter222
most wars? you mean the world wars? xD
DutchKincaid
But why did Constantinople get the works?
houndinghell
That's nobody's business but the Turks.
DutchKincaid
HeckOff360
"Laughs in Russian"
UserSubHunterOfIndeterminateGender
It was the British AND French. After WW1 there was an opportunity to fix the Middle East. The Sykes-Picot Agreement between them ruined it.
Bruhbeans
It sure didn't help but the ME but solely laying the blame on that is ignorant. The Ottomans had many ethnicities, religions and rebellions
YesLikeWhatIDo
And it was stable Empire, the Muslim world do believe in one country and that’s why we got many conflicts right now in the ME.
rando84
How was it stable? There was no shortage of wars & rebellions during the Ottoman Empire
opkraut
It was stable while it was under one ruler who was able to control the empire. Once they lost control the fighting started again.
rekypup
North Korea is nice and stable under one ruler with no civil war if memory serves me correctly
opkraut
Yup. Exactly why Iraq and Afghanistan got so messy after Saddam and the Taliban were kicked out. Sects started fighting for control.
alpha199512
Suez Canal played the most important role I guess.
UserSubHunterOfIndeterminateGender
Nah, it was the oil. If you look at where the lines were drawn, it pretty much 50/50 splits the major known oil deposits at the time.
alpha199512
Agreed always the oil it’s like default settings
alpha199512
Also after oil it’s canal how do you take all that oil out btw.
xn1992
That’s right, those Sunni and Shia had been getting along famously for centuries. And everyone loves the Kurds.
superglitter222
Yeah the kurds suffer a great deal in the middle east, more hated than isis.
[deleted]
[deleted]
xn1992
Whilst you just seem to have a weak grasp. If I point out a flaw in a post,which even the OP has now admitted to be garbage, this should not
xn1992
....be your trigger to spout this sort of sneering bitterness.
[deleted]
[deleted]
[deleted]
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Doumdidoum
The Kurds were doing fine before WWI. They even ruled arab countries. Google Saladin.
xn1992
I don’t need Google to know about this stuff. There was centuries of persecution from Ottomans, nonsense to say they were “doing fine”
G3ologist
Guess who drew those boarders? Get your hands on a history book.
xn1992
You’re a grade A ass.
TheGhostofKennyRogers
Those borders* mean fuck all to ancient adversaries.
cinderspires
since the fall of ottoman empire, Middle-east was largely at peace. look at old pics of Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Syria
nopost
Would this peace in Palestine be before or after the Arabs started slaughtering Jews for moving there from Europe in the 20's?
cinderspires
source for arabs slaughtering jews? arabs were against unchecked mass immigration of jews into their country and rightfully so
nopost
Hevron Massacre, 1929. By your logic it's totally ok for a Trump supported to start murdering migrants from Central America seeking asylum
cinderspires
https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-the-israeli-mk-heralding-genocide-against-palestinians-1.5475561
sadstory
What are you talking about? Saudi Arabia/Yemen, Egyptian revolutions, Israel vs everyone, Iran/Iraq, Lebanon/Syria, turkey/Kurds/Armenians
schlummi
A lot of this is after WW2 and started with the "help" of UK.
sadstory
So your point is it was mostly peaceful for the years between 1923 and 1939?
schlummi
More interesting would be the time of ottoman empire 20 years earlier.
cinderspires
do you even know what you are talking about? Israel vs everyone is due to Israel annexing Golan heights from syria, sinai peninsula from 1/
cinderspires
Egypt and South of Lebanon from Lebanon. not to mention the continuous weapons and monetary support US provides to Israel. 2/
cinderspires
Iraq-Iraq War is CIA funded war made by saddam (a known US supported dictator). Saudi and Yemen war is again a proxy war between US and 3/
sadstory
You can talk about the reasons all you want, it's still a series of wars. Your terrible points about it being peaceful is just incorrect.
nonCanadianGoose
I’m pretty sure it’s been unstable since before the US and GB existed
Gover57
Post WW1 was when modern issues started in the middle east. before then it was relatively peaceful.GB and France split control of a 1/2
Gover57
lot of the countries as colonies.
alpha199512
Better then what it is today.
Galdrack
It was extremely stable for massive periods of time before they existed. The last century has been the most unstable it's every been.
YesLikeWhatIDo
Ummm maybe you need to read more a lil about the ME. I think Ottoman Empire was stable, isn’t ?
Galdrack
Pretty much all the instability in the ME came from different western empires invading. Greeks, Romans, Crusades, British, French etc.
stratplaya2000
Pretty sure the Arabs and Jews weren't getting along since way before 1776.
superglitter222
Yeah the muslims are the most antisemetic group in the world, coming second to nazis.
alpha199512
True but we all know about the Jewish diaspora right?
[deleted]
[deleted]
stratplaya2000
Am I wrong?
idontliketheclonebone
I think everyone played a large part in fucking that region up, including those that live there
BoltAurelius
Taken over by a militant ideology before militant imperialists even got there.
HumfreeBugart
Problem with the Middle East is that almost all the people who live there are a bunch of total cunts
dbone612
problem with you is that you're also a cunt
PatrickRob82
Yeah but it's way more satisfying and easy to blame one country.
jimmathyjones
Even when the country youre blaming didnt do anything until tensions where past no return?
PatrickRob82
Dude, my comment wasn't serious. You get that, right?
LinguisticBitch
Canada is innocent.
CityYeti
And all the people that used to live there
JamJarre
I mean not really. The west showed up and took all the oil and left the locals destitute. Frankopan's Silk Roads is a great summary
apolloin
I mean, it feels like OPEC is a thing? How long can you roll in your own shit screaming Colonialism before you're to blame?
dereklarsen
But that's just the thing. There's a great economic interest in keeping the area unstable. Otherwise they'd hold an immeasurable power 1/2
dereklarsen
since we don't want to do the work to evolve past petroleum. 2/2
DrRepost
The US has a shit ton of oil.
damogen
Ahem... As I recall there have been... ehm... some amount... of meddling in Middle East affairs after colonial times.
JamJarre
No man read your history. We've been fucking with the Middle East since the mid 1800s. You have to take a long view if you wanna understand
DevilsArsehole
Yup blaming others for your problems is never a solution.
IamMelonLordeYaYaYa
Yeah but between the US, USSR, UK, and France, most problems in Arab countries were literally caused by others
drunkhistorian
Thanks for that genius geopolitical policy guideline.
labmonkey4life
Unless your problem is needing to blame somebody for your problems
FooQuuxman
Well, *clearly* it be do Joooos! (\s)
cinderspires
like how Russia interfering with just one election has caused so much discord in our country now imagine if whole US government was 1/
cinderspires
overthrowed and trump is installed as dictator. imagine the chaos USA will be in. USA and west did the same thing in middle east
DevilsArsehole
Nonsense.
TheMajesticHarpyEagle
Not nonsense. Did it in parts of africa/central and south america too.
AntRam95
France and Britain backed out of a deal to give locals control of the region and instead carved up to support their interest with no care
AntRam95
About the political, cultural, or religious history of the area, and split apart groups that wanted to be together, and forced groups that
AntRam95
Hated each other together
WaltherWater
like with pakistan/india
cinderspires
look at the pictures of that region before west overthrowed democracy and installed violent dictatorship. for example 1/
cinderspires
look at Afghanistan prior to Russia and USA engaging in proxy war. look at Iran before CIA overthrowed democracy and installed shah 2/
cinderspires
look at Palestine before British ruined it by giving it to Zion terrorists. look at Iraq before USA overthrowed democratic communist 3/
nopost
Indeed. Before the British gave it to the Israelis, you just had a bunch of Arabs massacring Jews for fleeing Europe. Totally their fault!
ridge
Democratic Communist government?
cinderspires
democratically elected
cinderspires
government and helped saddam ascend to power. look at Libya today, CIA helping their asset ascend to power as dictator. everything is 4/
cinderspires
right in front of us to see.
DanAndsome
The US was not a colonial power in the Middle East. They didn’t draw the borders on exit.
allthesameisawitfirst
Get the fuck out of here with your historical knowledge!
WeAllLiveInAUserSubmarine
Ok yes, but you do keep bombing the place. So maybe you didn't cause the issues, but you're certainly exacerbating and perpetuating them.
WorthEveryPenny
But we did flood it with arms and violent propaganda so the Soviets couldn't take it over which bit us in the aaa
DanAndsome
Take a look at the weapons in the ME and tell me their from the US. They’re all eastern bloc weapons.
LurkerOfDarkness
The borders there weren't drawn on exit though.
DanAndsome
They absolutely were.
LurkerOfDarkness
No, They were drawn as the middleeast was divided up after the fall of the ottoman empire, some were to be independent countries, and 1/2
LurkerOfDarkness
Others becamr mandates of UK and France, which also had internal administrative borders. 2/2
prodygist
We did help Britain with the coup of 1953 though
BillHubbard
Not did they have an exit strategy when they took over Irak to harvest their oil. Powell stood there lying to the UN. The world believed.
tweakbz
Are you aware that we didn't invade Iraq - both times - for oil? Extenuating circumstances you probably wont understand are why we invaded.
ridge
Yet we never got a drop off oil. Weird how it all went to French companies.
AverageTree
I don’t think I can trust someone that spells Iraq with a K.
vauhtihirmu
It's the legit spelling in some languages.
SugarRay59
"In English, Iraq is far more used than Irak, which is the preferred spelling in French" - do with this what you will
WaltherWater
so why is the rest of his comment english then
thatfatguy3006
Well there you go. You proved him right. One should never trust the French they are French!
godskook
I don't think I can trust the french, either. Even among Canadians, the French-Canadians take a full extra second to apologize.
futonrevolutionary
They just decided which governments they wanted keep and which ones they wanted to topple.
Josefbugman1543
Oh yeah BP just happened to get CIA support for the whole Iran thing.
DanAndsome
Why would BRITISH PETROLEUM need CIA support. The British were already in control.
Josefbugman1543
Because BP had an agreement with Teddy Roosevelts grandson already? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat
TheUselessPhilosopher
Dont forget about france
cubicleinmate
The French and the Brits started so much crap.
flavivsaetivs
Really it was started by the Ottomans.
TheNopeShark
And Russia
waitingallthetime16
And Russia
SaItyEuropean
it was shit before anyone came, still is shit
atomiccheesegod
Or Belgium and Africa
rrlyrae
https://i.gifer.com/27vC.mp4
CitizenPrime
Don't forget about Dre
SchloobySnack
How could you?
kisselFL
Gibberish.
NoodleTraveler360
What did he say though?
Zekarul
They also "took care" of Asia
JimTheChair
And the ottomans
flavivsaetivs
https://media.giphy.com/media/1Z02vuppxP1Pa/giphy.gif
Doumdidoum
Ottomans ruled the place for 500 mostly tranquil years. If anybody raised his voice about the bakshish, his entire village disappeared.
[deleted]
[deleted]
SaItyEuropean
learn history before opening you goddamn mouth ~
legendarycazaclaw
2011~
Doumdidoum
Italy. Close enough tho.
legendarycazaclaw
I meant in 2011. Instability in the Middle East is an ongoing European project, and then they shift the burden on to the U.S.
Doumdidoum
True that.
odamanda
1/ Sorry, what? This isn't Africa. France was barely involved in the Middle East. It managed Syria and Lebanon. That's about it.
odamanda
2/ The Middle East was mostly the private turf of the UK, and then the US replaced them post WW2, in an entirely different context.
odamanda
4/ But invading Iraq w/o any forethought plan for its future and how it would affect the entire region definitely broke everything loose.
schlummi
Iran was also not well thought out...
odamanda
The whole region is extremely complex. It's basically the Balkans on steroids. It's worse actually. Going in blind was completely retarded.
Doumdidoum
Oooh I didn't know that Syria and Lebanon were doing great.
jfender
Lol. Hardly any illegal use of phosphorus, cluster bombs or nerve agents in civilian urban environments compared to last year
odamanda
What does it has to do with what I'm actually saying here? It's about why the Middle East is a clusterfuck of power struggles.
Doumdidoum
You said France had almost no implication in the ME. I just underlined the ridiculousness of your comment with some sarcasm.
odamanda
I said France had almost no implication in the global & underlying issues of the Middle East. It's a factual and historical reality, so?
odamanda
3/ The conflicts in the Middle East predates the arrival of the Europeans anyway. The whole area have always been a feuding shitshow.
Doumdidoum
False. There were less wars and violents deaths in all the Ottomans tenure of the ME than during the European 19th century
odamanda
The history of the Middle East goes way beyond the Ottoman rule over it. You're also leaving out a major historical actor too btw, Iran.
jfender
More chill when the Romans were in charge too. Both are shit comparisons to more recent history
TheRealAethrys
They had the advantage of the Argeads/Diadochi acclimating the populace to Hellenic rule.
Doumdidoum
Let's move the goalpost!!
WhyDontYouMakeMe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement
odamanda
Yes?
WhyDontYouMakeMe
Not only did they control Iraq, but those borders lazily drawn by France and Britain are still impacting the world
odamanda
This isn't Africa. The borders have nothing to do with the ongoing conflicts in the Middle East. This region has a very complex history.
flarflarf
Oh come on
flarflarf
that France didn't actively colonize the middle east does not mean that they were not party to its division and the subsequent shitstorm
odamanda
I've already addressed in other comments why that division has nothing to do with the shitstorm. Again, the ME is an old & complex region.
WhyDontYouMakeMe
The Zone of French Influence sure doesn't look like Africa to me
odamanda
3/ for a very long time, way before the Sykes-Picot Agreement.
odamanda
2/ to begin with. France was focused on Africa and Indochina. The UK on the other hand have had longstanding interests in the whole region
odamanda
1/ This map shows the *projected* borders. In practice, France was left with Syria and Lebanon, and had little interests with that region
KurtHamster
Who could forget about bacon?
AShartInTheWind
Kevin Bacon, what's he got to do with this?
Paoloc0mments
Everyone is connected to him.
SpaceTurd69
france is bacon. so they won't forget.
ButterfaceTaintClown
the middle east.
TheGreatWizpoo
comeflywithme
MValentin
Notorious bacon-forgetters.
footfucker
Don’t forget USSR helped
flarflarf
I'm all for blame where blame is due but the root cause of all this nonsense is sykes picot and the death of the Ottoman Empire
flarflarf
The USSR really didn't have anything to do with it, other than afghanistan in the 80s, but frankly by the 80s shit was already fucked up
spetcnaz
Oh yeah. Remember the colonial period of the USSR
Bernifal
Don’t forget that Russia is still doing it now
djzapz
Russia is not doing that much to destabilize the middle east, definitely not as much as the "West" historically has. Sure they helped (1/2)
djzapz
Al Assad's barbaric regime which is fucked up but Syria was a wreck before they showed up. (2/2)
Bernifal
Russia has an interest in destabilising Europe through the worsening the refugee situation. Western intelligence agrees on that
Bernifal
Downvote but this is well documented
djzapz
I'm not downvoting you, this is factual. But let's not forget that the West has an interest in destabilizing Russia also, and that's what
Gover57
You're thinking WW2, but modern middle east issues started after WW1 and the end of the Ottoman Empire. USSR wasn't founded until 1922.
superbest
It takes a village
RichardDastardly
Way before that, Afghanistan was a buffer state between the Russian Empire & the British Raj... dunno how many times it's been invaded.
potatoebottom
USSR didnt even exist when this began. One of the crucial points of this whole fiasco was WW1, when to fight the ottomans the British
potatoebottom
promised Sharif Hussein bin Ali an independant Arab state. After WW1 was over however the British and the French divided the middle east
potatoebottom
between themselves and said "jk". In fact the Arab leaders at the time werent opposed to a Jewish state as long as that meant independence
potatoebottom
There are two other things the 'allies' fucked up on after WW1 - the French invading germany, giving us WW2, and giving backing to the
potatoebottom
whites in Russian Civil War essentially creating Hitler, cold war, and middle east troubles all in one fell swoop.
tomwithonions
Afghanistan voted for socialism in the 80's. The USSR was invited by the govt of Afghanistan to intervene when the Mujahideen rebelled.
StewedTomaters
Much more complicated than that, the reason the Soviets invaded. One of the few important things I learned in college.
nihilistdad
You didn't learn shit obviously.
StewedTomaters
What did you learn? How to weld a brick?
TheGhostofKennyRogers
Stalin was just as bad as Hitler.
bestofallpossibleworlds
thought that it'd been worked out that Stalin was worth 4 Hitlers.
suchpun
Except Hitler wanted to murder everyone not Aryan in the long run, so Stalin literally SAVED everyone alive today that is not Aryan.
97thstep
Hitler had rookie numbers compared to Stalin. Probably just because he didn't have as much time.
Metatality
He also had a smaller country to work with. Hitler had to go outside germany to kill more, its easier when its at home.
DepressionAndDarkThoughts
Do we consider Mao worse than either of those? Based on number dead or based on cruelty?
HothRebelsForLife
As a historian whose focus is Asia... yes, yes we do
RalphtheMagnif
Worse honestly
PiggyWobbles
how dare you, go straight to gulag, no trial
CAntthenuclearapocalypsecomesoicanjustdiealready
That's only because Hitler lost. He was planning to exterminate pr enslave the Russian people
StewedTomaters
Oh, the old right-wing vs. Soviet Communism pissing contest. We should agree that authoritarianism is shit and put it all to bed.
HenryLongfellowIII
There are still large groups of people who look on Stalin and Mao favorably though. Hitler's big mistake was losing the war.
gtsr
it depends of what you mean by bad, if you mean as a person, who the fuck knows, if you mean that he did as much bad as Hitler then no.
Bruhbeans
Lol
suchpun
As a German, I love Stalin with all my hearth. He literally saved us and the world from fascism. He did what was necessary.
ham22
Right, he stopped world from going fascist, like he stopped Romania, Hungary, Poland, czechoslovakia&other from going democratic.
ItsActuallyDavidNow
Oh really? Well did Stalin ever round up people based on genetic defects or sexual orientation and murder them oh shit you’re right.
GingerLaird
He wasn't as specific; You just had to disagree with him and you got to go on the 'field trip'.
gtsr
I don't know if you're joking, but this actually never happened
RalphtheMagnif
That's where you are wrong bucko
Joltbox
Some nice Jewish doctors that could have helped when Stalin died would like to be known.
gtsr
116fucking morons believe that Stalin"round up people based on genetic defects or sex orientation and murder them"let me guess,homeschooled?
gtsr
don't get me wrong,I'm not defending Stalin, but "it wAs wOrsE tha nHitleR" it's dumb and makes me worry about people's gullibility.
ChickenParmItTastesSoGood
Except for that time that it actually did
gunshowzero
Read a book. Literally ANY fucking book.
TheWhiteBarry
Okay, geez. *picks up copy of Mein Kampf*
TheWhiteBarry
SneekyCheeky
Estonia lost 9% of its population to the ww2 and 11% to the soviet terror + the people that actually came back after surviving 25+5, so +1
suchpun
Except if the Nazis had won, there would be NO Estonian people at all, so he still saved every single one day survived.
SneekyCheeky
yeah, stalin murdered more people. mao is tho, totally on its own class. all extremes are one, like a buddhist friend said to me.
TheGhostofKennyRogers
Read the Gulag Archipelago and shut the fuck up.
gtsr
As others said, even if GA is not nearly an accurate historical report, in that book itself there's nothing that comes close to what H. did.
BadDungeonMaster
Historic BURRRRN
QuiteHugeMegaPlusUltra
Gulag archipelago is no way near a reputable historical source. By the way, have you read it?
VibratingNipples
Were you always this stupid or did you take lessons?
lancell
I like that insult.
Hurro
I'm worried this is the learned stupid. That means there are others...
RalphtheMagnif
Ignorant, not necessarily stupid
Gover57
Stalin and Hitler were WW2. Middle east issues started post WW1.
TheGhostofKennyRogers
“Middle East issues started post WW1.” Do you really believe that’s when issues started there?
Gover57
modern ones, yes.
puddin151
AmArschdieRaeuber
I want a source for that because it's bullshit. If you refering to count dankula, he payed a £800 fine and recieved £200.000 via gofundme.
WoeToHice
SilverNicktail
Nobody has been imprisoned for shitposting. Meanwhile, you elected a literal fascist who imprisons babies.
puddin151
https://www.apnews.com/a98f26f7c9424b44b7fa927ea1acd4d4
puddin151
hahahhahahahahaha you must not have heard, ALL of those pics of kids in cages were from the Obama era but yeah keep thinking that
SilverNicktail
........What? They went out on national TV and defended the policy? What kind of reality distortion bubble are you in?
Porfirij
who was jailed for shitposting? btw, i don't think incarceration rate is a metric you'd want to compare anyway.
puddin151
the guy who taught his dog to nazi salute
Fedotia
Not his dog, and never seen the inside of a cell.
TheLesserOfTwoWeevils
he was fined
puddin151
he was arrested first, he was only fined after the trial
TheLesserOfTwoWeevils
no shit. You kind of have to be arrested before you can have a trial, no? Doesn't change the fact he didn't get a jail sentence.